October 11, 2005
Viggo and the impeachment buzz
by Liza Sabater
Photo courtesy of Viggo-Works
So now I know why I am getting pounded with people doing searches on Viggo. I re-blogged Viggo Mortensen's call for impeachment in c u l t u r e k i t c h e n: "Members of the Bush Administration responsible for the blatant lies and self-serving manipulations that have fanned the flames of disaster from Iraq to New Orleans must be prosecuted as our laws require."
Now I am told Drudge Report posted a link the an interview with him The Progressive just published. He talks about his favorite topic du jour, the impeachment of the whole top tier of the Bush Administration:
Q: Are you anti-Bush, as the pundits say?Mortensen: No, I’m not anti-Bush; I’m anti-Bush behavior. In other words, I’m against cheating, greed, cruelty, racism, imperialism, religious fundamentalism, treason, and the seemingly limitless capacity for hypocrisy shown by Bush and his Administration.
Q: What’s wrong with pinning it all on Bush?
Mortensen: It’s too easy, and it lets a lot of people off the hook. I think impeachment proceedings need to be started immediately but not just against him. God forbid we should have Dick Cheney as President. No. Those two need to go, and many of the others in the inner circle need to go.
And people wonder why I want to have this man's babies. I mean, seriously, I do. You have to love a guy that's not afraid to speak the truth.
Even freakier is the fact that just last night I scooted over to his site and paid for a copy of the t-shirt he is wearing (in size small, so the twins will look lovely). What does it say?
Impeach. Remove. Jail.
The whole Viggo Mortensen Interview by Nina Siegal for The Progressive is after the jump.
Viggo Mortensen Interview
By Nina Siegal
November 2005 Issue
Sure, he’s cute. Well, not cute. Strikingly, jaw-droppingly gorgeous. But the most intriguing thing about Viggo Mortensen, who played King Aragorn in The Lord of the Rings trilogy and who recently won critical acclaim for his leading role in the latest David Cronenberg release, A History of Violence, is how much he loves to talk politics.
When I called him in July to interview him for The Progressive, he had returned from four months’ shooting the forthcoming Spanish historical epic, Alatriste. He sounded exhausted, as though he could barely hold the phone, but when we started talking about the war in Iraq, the Bush Administration, and the role of actors and artists in mainstream political discourse, he didn’t feel like sleeping. Eventually, I had to tell him I was tired.
Two days later, he called back. He wanted to clarify a few things he’d said and to answer more questions. And he tried me a few times after that. We spoke one final time in the wake of Katrina. I might have flattered myself to think one of the best-looking Hollywood leading men liked the sound of my voice. But that clearly wasn’t the case, since he did most of the talking.
Born in Manhattan on October 20, 1958, to an American mother and a Danish father, Mortensen spent his childhood in Argentina, Venezuela, and Denmark. He went to school in Watertown, New York, just south of the Canadian border. He studied acting at the Warren Robertson Theatre Workshop in Manhattan in the 1980s and then moved to Los Angeles. There, he met Excene Cervenka, the lead singer of the punk band X, and became a familiar face in the Los Angeles punk scene. The couple had a son, Henry, together in 1988, and subsequently divorced.
Mortensen made his feature-film debut in 1985 as Alexander Godunov’s Amish brother in Witness. After that, he had a run as a villain in a series of films, playing a paraplegic ex-con snitch in the 1993 film Carlito’s Way with Al Pacino, and Lucifer in The Prophecy with Christopher Walken, two years later. In 1997, he played the tough-talking training instructor to Demi Moore’s G.I. Jane, and the following year he appeared as Gwyneth Paltrow’s home-wrecking paramour in A Perfect Murder.
In recent years, Mortensen has been cast as much more heroic figures, not only as King Aragorn but also as the lead human in Hidalgo, the horse story in which a down-on-his-luck postal carrier rides his mustang in a race across the Arabian Desert.
Most recently, he won acclaim for his portrayal of Tom Stall, an Indiana diner owner whose life is changed forever after he acts against two robbers in A History of Violence. The film, an adaptation of John Wagner and Vince Locke’s graphic novel of the same name, was a critical hit at Cannes. He also plays the lead in Alatriste, portraying the seventeenth century soldier and missionary Captain Alatriste, based on the book of the same name by Arturo Perez Reverte. The film is due out in the spring.
Mortensen is a part-time musician, a published poet, and a photographer and painter who has had exhibitions at art galleries such as the Robert Mann Gallery, Track 16 Gallery, Fototeca de Cuba, and Museet for Fotokunst in Denmark. On top of all that, he founded the independent publishing house Perceval Press.
Even when he’s not jet-lagged, he is soft spoken. He doesn’t like to talk about his personal accomplishments. But get him going on politics and he’s hard to stop. Below is a condensed account of our many phone conversations.
Question:Why did you decide to go down to Camp Casey and join Cindy Sheehan?
Viggo Mortensen: I went in the first week, when there were only a few people down there. She was being so maligned and dragged through the mud. I thought the best thing to do was just to go and listen to her and make up my own mind. If you’re someone who is a public figure, if you make too much of it, the risk is that you can be seen as just trying to get attention for yourself. So I intentionally went down without saying I was coming. No one even saw me getting out of the car, and before anyone knew it I was just standing in front of her. I stayed very briefly, and she was nice enough to give me a little of her time.
Q: What did you talk about?
Mortensen: Well, first of all, I just said, respectfully, I’m sorry about your son, and I said thank you for some of the things you’ve said and for bringing attention to the issue, for keeping this topic alive. I left there really impressed with her, with her integrity and sincerity.
I also had a sense of just how threatening someone like this would be to people who are used to running the show, in terms of perception and media information—or disinformation. It’s like she pulled an end around just by being herself, a relatively ordinary woman displaying extraordinary courage and being quite eloquent and brave, knowing she’s being savaged and hearing it and standing up to it and having her say as an individual and as a woman. The fact that she was a woman—how could this little woman do that to us?—it just galled them. I thought, good for you.
Q: What was your reaction to Katrina?
Mortensen: Cindy Sheehan and how badly Katrina was bungled are two shots to the heart. I hope the beast does fall down soon. What’s more shameful than the criminal negligence that made a bad situation much, much worse is the arrogant attitude after the fact. The outright lying—even though we’ve become accustomed to lying from this Administration—has broken new ground in the field of dishonesty. They’re so clumsy in their attempts to come off well. And there is so little heart in what they say. Even the sound of their voices is so false.
Q: Are you anti-Bush, as the pundits say?
Mortensen: No, I’m not anti-Bush; I’m anti-Bush behavior. In other words, I’m against cheating, greed, cruelty, racism, imperialism, religious fundamentalism, treason, and the seemingly limitless capacity for hypocrisy shown by Bush and his Administration.
Q: What’s wrong with pinning it all on Bush?
Mortensen: It’s too easy, and it lets a lot of people off the hook. I think impeachment proceedings need to be started immediately but not just against him. God forbid we should have Dick Cheney as President. No. Those two need to go, and many of the others in the inner circle need to go.
Q: It seems much of the media has responded differently to Katrina than they did to earlier screw-ups by the Bush Administration. Why is that?
Mortensen: It’s because it’s here. You can see it. You can’t hide that. So all of a sudden these mousy, timid, go-along reporters are finding some spine, and that’s nice to see. I hope it lasts. I hope they don’t recede into their self-congratulating, privileged little niches.
Q: Are you hopeful about political change?
Mortensen: I think most Americans will look back on this period since 1980 as a morally bleak, intellectually fraudulent period of history. There will be a certain amount of shame, a feeling we were part of something wrong. People standing outside of this country can see this because it’s very obvious. It’s like looking at a spoiled brat, a kid who’s totally out of control, but because the parents are really rich and because they own the school, you have to put up with it. America is an empire in decay. But we don’t have to lash out and do damage on the way down. We can reverse some of the damage we’ve done. It’s possible.
Q: You have been criticized for wearing anti-war T-shirts while promoting your films, particularly The Lord of the Rings. Did you have a particular strategy?
Mortensen: I made use of an opportunity. The first time was in the fall of 2002, when I happened to be on The Charlie Rose Show. I went there wearing a shirt that I just scribbled with a pen, “No More Blood for Oil.”
Q: But it was also connected to the politics of the movie.
Mortensen: Yes, I was getting tired of journalists presuming that “obviously” the Fellowship of the Ring is America or the West, surrounded by poor Oriental Islamic extremists. Tolkien presents a complex and detailed and interesting set of stories and ideas and archetypes. The Lord of the Rings was appreciated around the world because it speaks to a lot of universally understood truths and myths, not because it justified the right wing of the Republican Party or some kind of North American Protestant Christian fundamentalism.
Q: Following the Charlie Rose appearance, USA Today contributor Michael Medved took you to task for ruining a popular movie by politicizing it. “Political preachments, on or off camera, only interfere with the entertainment value of creative work by major Hollywood stars,” he wrote, in a piece that got a lot of attention. What did you think?
Mortensen: It was a shoddy piece of journalism. I won’t descend to his level to call him an idiot or anything like that, but it was obviously something he did to curry favor with his fan base or the people he would like to impress in religious political circles. He wanted to be able to say, “Look, I slapped that guy down.” The only reason he took aim at me at all was because the movie I was in had done very well, so I was a visible person. The establishment media will often do that; they’ll see someone who has visibility and they’ll take them down. The risk is that the person might actually be listened to. It poses a threat. I’m glad I resisted the temptation to respond at the time. In the end, it didn’t mean that much to me.
Q: Should the average citizen care what a celebrity thinks about politics?
Mortensen: I don’t think special attention should be given to an actor or a singer or a baseball player or a soccer player more than anyone else, but they do have an opinion like anyone else. When people say that entertainers should “know your place,” they might as well say the same thing about plumbers and teachers and cab drivers. We all should be able to express our views.
Q: Do you think actors are particularly stymied when they try to speak out?
Mortensen: It’s almost a standard tactic, really, to try to minimize any effort that people in the entertainment business or in any public occupation make to express themselves. Look, there are people that grandstand and seem to be publicly politically engaged because they like the attention, more than because they’re genuinely concerned about the world. But I don’t think that’s the majority. The majority of those who take the risk—and it is a risk because it’s much safer to keep your mouth shut and keep making a living—have something to say. They speak up, or go on a march, or get involved in the political process because they do care and they are concerned. I consider myself very fortunate to have a platform. I don’t take it lightly, and I don’t abuse it. I don’t speak up about something unless I feel strongly about it and until I’ve researched a subject extensively and have an informed decision about it. But I think if you don’t say something it’s lying by omission. I personally think it’s immoral. Yeah, it might cost you a few fans, but you have to say something.
Q: What has it cost you?
Mortensen: I don’t know. There might be people out there who wouldn’t hire me because they thought I should keep my mouth shut, but I’m not aware of that. Even if I saw evidence of that, it wouldn’t really concern me. Bertrand Russell said one of the first symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one’s work is terribly important. I take my work seriously, but it’s not the only thing that exists in the world.
Q: You’ve played a number of roles now—in A History of Violence, Hidalgo, and The Lord of the Rings—in which you are a type of cowboy, fighting the forces of evil. A Toronto newspaper dubbed you “the New John Wayne.” What are your feelings about portraying these types of heroes?
Mortensen: I don’t know what the new John Wayne is. I’m not consciously picking any type of role, even so-called hero roles. And if some character seems very certain or very courageous, I always try to find the other side of that. When are they not courageous and when are they not certain?
Q: When you were asked to play Frank Hopkins, the pony express carrier in Hidalgo, I read that you were concerned about being cast as the American cowboy riding through the Arabian Desert. How did you deal with that?
Mortensen: Yes, at first I had concerns about how the movie would be made and also how the movie would be promoted. When we were about to start shooting, it was early 2002 and anyone could see that the Bush Administration was already gearing up its PR machine to sell the U.S. public on its war in Iraq. I was very anxious that I was going to be playing a role as a mythic American cowboy participating in a race in the Middle East. I met with the director and asked him, “What do you want to say? Is this just going to be some American that goes and kicks ass in some heedless way? Or, are you going to show Wounded Knee? Are you going to show, in some small way, that someone from the West and someone from the East with seemingly opposite points of view can come to understand each other?” He said that’s what he was going to do, and he also said a lot of other things that made me feel the project was worthwhile. And, in the end, I feel it was.
Q: What attracted you to your role in A History of Violence?
Mortensen: It was very thought provoking. It’s very much like a Western on a lot of levels. Plus, it was fun to work with David Cronenberg. He’s one of the best directors working in the world today, and he has a lot to say, and he’s very clever about the way he says it.
Q: You have a lot of interests outside acting. You’re a photographer, a poet, a musician, a painter, and a publisher. If, for some bizarre reason, you had to choose just one medium in which to express yourself, what would it be?
Mortensen: That’s like saying would you rather lose your eyesight, your hearing, or your ability to speak. I would rather not even think about it. I pursue the things I do because I’m interested in them. And I’m grateful for the opportunities I’ve had, putting one foot in front of the other.
Posted by Liza Sabater in Activism, Condoleeza Rice, Corruption, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, Harriet Miers, Impeachment, Viggo Mortensen
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Say it loud, say it proud!
It's a good thing I already own Lord of the Rings, since I doubt I'll ever buy anything starring Viggo again.
2
Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 11, 2005 04:27 PM
What is Viggo talking about? Impeach on what grounds? I've yet to see any EVIDENCE of deliberate misleading on the part of the Bush administration. You must have evidence, not just a cute smile and few million dollars in the bank.
3
Comment by: Viggo Go Home at October 11, 2005 04:59 PM
This is just another in a long line of Bush-haters. They all say the support the troops or just don't like Bush's behavior, but deep down they hate him for not being Bill Clinton and they don't really support the troops because they don't support the commander-in-chief. Bill Clinton is on record for lying (in court, to the country, to his family) but hollywood tards like Viggo never seem to notice. I guess hypocrisy is ok if you're a lefty tree-huggin hippy liberal douche.
4
Comment by: UninformedCelebrity at October 11, 2005 05:02 PM
Yep, that's the last one of his films I see....
5
Comment by: Mike at October 11, 2005 05:11 PM
Sure, Viggo is entitled to his opinion, just as is a plumber, but a plumber doesn't have the built in soapbox with the ability to reach millions of people.
Tell ya what, Viggo: When I see Clinton and Reno hanging by the neck from the nearest oak tree for THEIR crimes, THEN I will allow you to impeach Bush.
6
Comment by: Glen at October 11, 2005 05:45 PM
I give Mortensen credit for being more calm and rational than most of his colleagues. However, when asked to comment on Michael Medved's column, he says "I won’t descend to his level to call him an idiot or anything like that..."
This is disingenuous in two ways: he gives the impression that Medved often resorts to name-calling (which he doesn't), and then subsequently calls Medved an idiot. Mortensen's MO seems to be heavy on ad-hominem attacks and rhetoric, short on substance.
7
Comment by: Dismayed at October 11, 2005 06:00 PM
Quote: Mortensen: No, I’m not anti-Bush; I’m anti-Bush behavior. In other words, I’m against cheating, greed, cruelty, racism, imperialism, religious fundamentalism, treason, and the seemingly limitless capacity for hypocrisy shown by Bush and his Administration.
All I can say is the Viggo must be having some vivid pipe dreams. Do you think for one moment that if there were some basis for impeachment that Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi et al would sit back and fail to run with it. The fact is that there is NO basis for impeaching anybody. As for Viggo's charges above. Assuming that they are true none of them are crimes with the exception of cheating and treason, and where is the evidence of those. And religious fundamentalism is a basis for impeachment. What a lunatic!
8
Comment by: lorraine at October 12, 2005 10:02 AM
Wow Lisa. You must have found the last several people on the face of the earth who don't believe that the Bush camp is packed with liars. I'm counting down the days until the indictments are handed out--they'll be passing them around the White House like popcorn.
9
Comment by: S. Gibson at October 12, 2005 04:39 PM
I am VERY proud of what Viggo Mortensen has to say. He is the unwavering, courageous voice that speaks for all of us. First of all, those who criticize him and others like him are afraid of the truth or really do know what it is and are just denying it. Second of all, don't even bring up Clinton, because Clinton was impeached not for what he did, but because he lied and if that's the case than Bush and his ENTIRE administration need to be impeached for lying to America and the World. They should be tried at the International Criminal Court after they are impeached to settle for their war crimes. Finally, Viggo brings to the table a very rational and informed argument. "The truth shall set you free."
And in terms of religion, well, "Not my president" because as Thomas Jefferson once said, "Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
People look at Hitler now and ask "How could everyone have been so BLIND???" Well, that is the same question we will be asking ourselves just a few years down the road.
We WILL have the truth. Don't listen to the morons, Viggo, I'm with you!
10
Comment by: mary blythe at October 12, 2005 06:43 PM
Criticizing Mr. Mortensen for exercising his first ammendment rights is to miss the point entirely: most of the previous administrations, from Reagan to Bush I and II (yes, including Clinton), have led our country down a dark path grown thick with international blunders, political croneyism, and shameful disregard for the welfare of the people they represent. ALL of us should be interested in discovering the truth behind the political bulletins that the White House has been feeding the established press. Mr. Mortensen, along with a great many others, may believe that the impeachment process is the most expedient way of achieving that end. "Only doubtful truths need defense." -- Alan Watts
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Comment by: grenniespex at October 12, 2005 07:49 PM
I recently heard a radio interview with Mr. Mortensen where he complained that a section of an interview with him where he had also attacked the Clinton administration had been cut out making him seems that he was only attacking Bush rather than all unethical politicians. As for evidence of lying 'Saddam has large numbers of WMDs.' - No he didn't. 'Saddam supports Al Quaida' - no he didn't they hated each other. 'War in Iraq makes Americans safer'-no it just loses them friends even amongst moderate european countries. This is obvious and common knowledge so Bush et. al. were either LYING or GROSSLY INCOMPETENT. I'm just grateful that there are some americans like Viggo Mortensen brave, intelligent and eloquent enough to speak out. How refreshing!
12
Comment by: Maryscott O'Connor at October 12, 2005 10:50 PM
Who the fuck are these christofascist neocon zombie brigaders and what are they doing on a Liberal website, besides wasting people's tie with their drivel?
Viggo, dude, you are admired and loved for more than your talents and looks, at least in this milieu -- and what better milieu could one ask?
(By the by -- I MET Liza at the march on 9/24 -- the babe is intellectual brilliance and political acuity, made manifest in the corporeal garb of a goddess.)
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 13, 2005 06:37 AM
If stockpiles of WMD weren't there, all that means is that the intelligence was wrong. EVERYONE'S INTELLIGENCE--France, Germany, Russia, etc. WHere's the lie? You fake leftys are like children who call their parents liars when they just happen to be wrong. Stop crying, no one's getting impeached, no one lied, and democracy is on the march in the Mideast, thanks to the brave coalition.
14
Comment by: grenniespex at October 13, 2005 10:19 AM
You can't force democracy on people! Iraq is about to collapse into civil war because of the invasion and ironically the instability in the country means power is shifting further and further towards religious extremists in that country. As I said if it isn't a lie then it is complete incompetence. You can't even contemplate anything as serious as war unless you KNOW . You can't afford to be wrong with something as serious as that. Iraq is most likely going to split into 3 countries eventually and one (the one with the most oil) is likly to be islamic fundamentalist . Go America, well done!
15
Comment by: Tamilee at October 13, 2005 10:26 AM
It's wonderful to know that Viggo is not just another pretty face, but an intelligent and thoughtful person. His views on the inept and corrupt administration are dead on. If Clinton can be impeached for lying, then Bush can and should be impeached for his incompetance, which has lead to the death of thousands. From buying the press, to the war in Iraq this administration has proved themselves to be a pack of creedy, bloodthirsty, crooks. Bush is scrambling now to try and show he's not the complete moran the American people now know he is. While the ever elusive Cheney lurkes in the backgound, like a pervert in a trenchcoat, waiting for his chance to ponce. Let's bring in Haliburton, and make millions of more dollars for them, plundering the American people. Then there is Rove, Frist, Delay, Rice, and Rumsfield, a gang of pompous thugs if ever there was one.
It pays to be a FOB...Friend of Bush. He has taken care of his friends. At the cost of the world and America. History will show he is the worst president this country has ever known.
This mess he has got us into is not something he can grin, buy, or lie, his way out of. I hope his so-called friends take the fall with him.
16
Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 13, 2005 01:04 PM
And you think we could have afforded to be wrong if Saddam DID have weapons? If the war in Iraq fails, and it could, it does not impugn the causes for going in: WMD and freedom. And no one is forcing democracy. Iraqis have gone out by the millions to vote at risk of their lives. Don't belittle their effort or courage. Look at the massive success in Afghanistan. Was that "forced" on them?
17
Comment by: theGoodDr. at October 14, 2005 07:11 PM
It seems obvious that the above pro death/destruction/lies/bush posts were written by the same individual. either that or they sure do have one hell of a brainwashing machine
mahalo
18
Comment by: Bush isa Nazi at October 15, 2005 12:12 AM
Bush is a fucking mindless idiot. That we have gone as far down the road with this puppet is depressing and wrong. So many dead, our skies dirtier, our minds duller. He's truly the friend of the devil.
...Set out runnin’ but I take my time
A friend of the devil is a friend of mine
If I get home before daylight, I just might get some sleep tonight.
19
Comment by: Karl Rove at October 15, 2005 12:14 AM
You guys don't know sh*t. If you did, you'd realize that it's better to submit and remain 'free' than to struggle, and end up in prison. Soon, all the activities you have learned to love will become illegal. Some already are. You will find yourself in a cell. I find myself in a position of power. Sure I let that CIA name fly...why wouldn't I? It's MY perrogative. Booyeah!
20
Comment by: Atticus Finch at October 15, 2005 02:11 AM
We are long overdue for a serious house clean. Let's start at the top and work our way down.
21
Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 15, 2005 02:19 AM
All you hysterical Bush-haters can do nothing but throw around invective and name call. Prove something. You're whining in a vacuum, that's how you lost the election. Don't you think you need a slightly more sophisticated argument than saying Bush is a friend of the devil or he lied. Don't you realize that the people who make things happen, on both sides, of the political spectrum have a more nuanced, less infantile, approach to issues. Stop your tantrum and make real points.
22
Comment by: Viggo is my Hero at October 15, 2005 06:28 AM
I voted for Bush twice, but after all these things happening with the war and the inept response to Katrina, I deeply regret my support of Bush.
I applaud Viggo for speaking his views so strongly, without fear of the consequences. Dissent is the American thing to do. Republicans spoke out strongly against Clinton during his years...so they just need to stop being so hypocritical. Clinton was impeached for a stupid lie about sex. If the truth ever comes about the war in Iraq and Abu Ghraib video tapes...now those would be a monumental reasons to impeach Bush. Perhaps even stronger than the case against Nixon.
Bush and his administration are in such huge trouble...Yikes. We need to clean house.
23
Comment by: Tamilee at October 15, 2005 10:14 AM
Hey guys,
A friend who works for the gov. She pointed something out to me. Try going to the site goggle.com search the word FAILURE...and look what the first site to come up is. Its the offical White House/gov. George Bush bio. Now that about puts the last nail in the coffin!
Hilarious!
24
Comment by: Grenniespex at October 15, 2005 11:01 AM
In response to "Dumb Viggo"'s name calling.
I didn't lose any election as I am not American and I resent the way a country and its leader feels they have the right to dictate what should happen in the lives of other people in the world who have no chance to vote for them. That is what I mean by you can't force democracy on people. Yes they have voted of course but will that vote come to any good if the americans still retain such an influence. (One large portion of the population boycotted the election and now the constitution - they'd have less reason to do so if the troops had pulled out by now). Democracy is good but American style of democracy is just one form that is not a mould you can just export through force.
Other issues you raised: 1. Success in Afghanistan? If you had a less onesided media in your unfortunate country you might realise that there is still alot of chaos there and yes the american invasion was forced thats why its called an invasion. Iraq and Afghanistan are two very different countries also with very different issues. You also havn't resolved the WMD issue - he never had any!!!!
25
Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 15, 2005 07:04 PM
Greeniespex,
You see there's this thing called globalization. It's roughly 100 years old, and because of it a lot of countries effect a lot of other countries. That can't be stopped. So you're first point is kind of lost on me. Will the vote come to any good? We'll have to see. It certainly doesn't seem BAD. We're not forcing American style democracy on them. They cite Islam as a source in their constitution, for christ's sake. That's not "American style." Of course things aren't perfect in Afghanistan. You want perfection? But things are much much much better. That's just a fact you have to live with. And I'm GLAD Saddam didn't have stockpiles of WMD. The fact that EVERYONE thought he did can't be denied.
26
Comment by: Rebecca at October 16, 2005 12:03 AM
I have never admired someone better than I do Viggo! He is a great actor, poet, painter photgrapher etc... but what really gets into my heart is his love for people! He is a true hearted person who is for all of us! Boy, I sure wish we had a government who felt like that for us the people of this nation. Instead of people who only love power and money!! It makes me sad. And yes, there might not ever be a perfect government, but I at least would think one could be better than this. I live over here by the Katrina area in North west Florida and I felt more love coming from people like Viggo than did our own president and that is hurtful. And why when things are going so badly (hurricanes etc) must we choose this time to higher gas prices so folks can't even leave the hurricane areas and have to stay? Let's all come together (us people, average citizens) and take back our country!!!
27
Comment by: Rebecca at October 16, 2005 12:14 AM
By the way, I am proud to be a tree hugging hippie-type as opposed to let's build a cemented world and get rid of all the wild-life type of individual!!
28
Comment by: grenniespex at October 16, 2005 06:56 AM
Dear Dumb (you don't mind if I call you by your first name do you?),
I will ignore your sarcasm about globilization and stick to the discussion points you have raised. Globilisation cannot be fully stopped but, as a supporter of democracy, surely you should agree that this process should be checked by democratic process so that it develops to aid people and not simply coorporations and big business. The closest we have to this democracy at present is the UN. However this vital institution has tragically been growing weaker and weaker due to a disrespect and shown to it by the strongest nations who seem soully after only their own interests. This disrespect came to a head when America, Britain and others ignored a democratic vote and started a war without support or adequate provocation (whether or not the other members of the UN security council believed that Sadam had WMDs they clearly did not think the evidence enough to risk war unlike the States.) Secondly, by 'american style' democracy let me be clearer. I mean a form of democracy which puts the interests of business over people, which entirely relies on the free market to provide. (Which, in the wake of Katrina, it is clear it cannot always do). Of course Islam is the basis of their constitution I never said it wasn't. But you cannot ignore the fact that the Sunis feel ignored by the constitution and resent the continued american presence and that one size fits all simply isn't going to work. Civil war in that country is made more likely not less by the continued presence of foreign troops. As for Afghanistan, no I'm not looking for perfection I was simply objecting to the naive idea that the invasion there was a 'massive success' as you stated in an earlier post.
29
Comment by: grenniespex at October 16, 2005 07:07 AM
Yes Rebecca, I thought "Tree Hugging Hippie Type" was an interesting choice of insult too! Very flattering really if that's the worst someone can call you! ;)
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Comment by: Alice de Tokeville at October 16, 2005 11:37 AM
I think the hard thing talking to someone like "Dumb Viggo" is that we're not on the same page. He - it has to be a 'he' - has undoubtedly not seen the evidence we have, not heard the same info we have. So what I'd like to ask him is, "IF it is so that Bush Admin. invaded Iraq knowing that there was no threat from WMD, and therefore DID perpetrate a hoax on the people, do you agree that THAT would be grounds for impeachment? 'Cause if there's no agreement on that point there's not much pointin arguing over whether the WMD was there. I know plenty of americans who are fine with having the gov. lie to them, because they don't want to have to inform themselves and examine their own conscience.
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 16, 2005 12:40 PM
The cosest thing to a benevolent democracy is the UN? You're talking about an body which chooses admitted dictators to sit atop human rights commisions. Are you aware of the oil-for-food scandal? Billions pocketed as the direct result of stealing food from the mouths of starving children. I don' understand the need for damning one's own country and romanticizing its enemies. It's one thing to do that if there's evidence to support you, but just this blind insistence that the US is a corporate arm of Satan and the UN (please!) some beacon of democracy gets you nowhere. Look to the facts. By the way, the vote in Iraq was a succes and Sunni turnout waws mixed. That's fine. And Afghanistan WAS and IS a massive success. That's because the US and UK gave millions their freesom there. Not the waning crime syndicate known as the UN.
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 16, 2005 12:42 PM
To Alice,
If there was evidence that our government lied to us about the causes for war I would INSIST on impeachment. But you have no such evidence. If you do, please refer me to it.
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Comment by: grenniespex at October 16, 2005 08:02 PM
Dear Dumb,
This will be my last post on this matter as you clearly have very strong and worrying oppinions which I have no chance of changing. But I would like to reply to your final accusations. Firstly yes of course I have heard of some of the scandals that have rocked the UN - please do not assume that because I disagree with you that I am ignorant. They do not change the fact that the UN is the closest thing to a globalised democracy that we have. It needs to be stronger and better regulated and to change to become a proper chack on globalization. I would also like to analise your language, which is fascinating to me. You are insistent that we 'look at the facts' whilst you yourself provide none. Statements such as 'afghanistan was and is a massive success' are oppinion, and unsubtle sweeping oppinion at that. You yourself offer no evidence to support this. 'Corporate arm of satan' - your term not mine I am an atheist so the word satan has very little meaning for me but i guess language that is designed to be emotive to the 'god-fearing'. But as for evidence to support the idea that there is corporate greed involved in the invasion of iraq - I offer the large reconstruction contracts given to american corporations that have no democrating right to be there - the other term for this is 'looting'. The other most fascinating phrase you offer is 'damning one's own country whilst romanticizing its enemies'. This is very black and white, us v. them. To criticise your government's actions when they are wrong is not to damn ones own country. And who are these enemies and in what way are they being romanticised? Are they small clusters of terrorists or whole nation states? Or simply anyone who disagrees with you? I sencerely hope it is not the last option. It is very easy to create enemies to justify your actions and much harder to build bridges and collaborations in order to engage in true communication with others. One final thought, please define 'freedom' as I think it has a different meaning to you as it does to me. Thanks for the conversation it has taught me alot but possibly not in the way you intended.
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 17, 2005 05:42 AM
Allow me to further your education.
Fact: Before the US liberation of Afghanistan a woman there faced death if she showed any skin in public. After the the US liberation of Afghanistan, women have not only run for president but been elected governor of provinces outlying Kabul.
That's called freedom. And you should be proud that it was achieved, not by UN profiteers, by US soldiers and policy-makers.
And your worried about US construction contracts????? US corporations received lucrative contracts to rebuild Germany and Japan after world war II. Does that mean that we shouldn't have fought Hitler or Japan? Toss the script you got from Michael Moore and Air America, and write your own. Think for yourself.
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Comment by: grenniespex at October 17, 2005 09:48 AM
You are making some wild assumptions about me. Remember I am not american. And your texts have mainly taught me how the world is seen by some people inside your country and it is very depressing. I have only seen one Michael Moore film which was to me a refreshing take by an american on his own country stating what alot of people living outside the US (and as far as I can tell US citizens as well) have been thinking for a long time myself included. I don't know what Air America is and frankly I'm not interested.
As for the abuse of women. It is an area I have always felt strongly about and the Taliban regime was indeed terribly abusive to women as it was to anyone that did not conform however please read this quote from Amnesty International
"Women are increasingly vulnerable to violence in times of instability, conflict, and in post-conflict situations. The targeting of women is part of the ‘culture of war’ and gender-based violence is used as a military tactic.". In other words war, invasion and instability are not the best way to successfully end the abuse of women (there is alot more to the abuse of women than whether they can show their ankles or not). I dread to think of how many women in Iraq have suffered physical and mental abuse due to this war and the ensuing anarchy. Something for the US to be proud of?
This is my last post on the subject as you and I clearly don't speak the same language and you havn't defined any of your terms for me as requested.
PS. Germany and Japan attacked first in WWII. The two situations simply aren't comparable.
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 17, 2005 11:19 AM
For starters, Germany never attacked us.
Second, that Amnesty quote is, at best, a string of vauge platitudes. The fact remains that the war in Afghanistan has brought women increased freedom. Why you should be so eager to deny the beautiful truth of that escapes me. And I promise you that Iraqi women and men suffered more and died more under Saddam while being beggared then they have during the war and transfer while they're being offered a genuine future. What is this silliness, you want me to define freedom? Freedom is the ability generallyu do as one pleases without trespassing on the rights of others. i assume I stepped into some schoolyard trap there or something. Facts, my friend. The truth is an absolute defense.
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Comment by: Rebecca at October 17, 2005 12:21 PM
Hmm... Freedom.. there is NO true freedom in this world. So all of that is kind of lost on me!!!
Between the two Iraqi wars,we have killed (estimation here) at least 3 to 4 million people. Now maybe Saddam Husein has killed more. I do not know. But it seems to me we could have done better than that. And then there is those puppet governments we put into these countries (which is why a lot of arab people are upset with us.)We would probably be better loved by them if we would let them actually choose their own people they want in. But we treat them like kids, like they couldn't choose their own people. Hey we expect them to live with this government. We get to leave and they will be stuck with the consequences of what we choose for them. So freedom, think again!!! We wouldn't appreciate someone invading our country and killing half of us off, supposedly for our own good. And then insult upon insult, expect us to live with the government they choose to give us.... So let's not talk about freedom, for that doesn't exist in today's world. Only in a utopian society.....
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 17, 2005 01:10 PM
Rebecca,
Freedom as a reality is, of course, nonexistant. As a useful concept, an ideal, to strive ever closer to it is invaluable. Your estimates on the number of dead is outrageous, even comical, to anyone with a grasp on the situation, including those who oppose the Iraq wars. I don't know what your sources are, but don't use them anymore. And I don't know what puppet regimes your refferring to. Both Iraqis and Afghanis have demonstrated their bravery on several occasions by coming out to vote for leaders of their choosing. I wouldn't be so dismissive of that if I were you. You may take your own vote for granted, but you have no right to do so for the votes of others, especially them. As to why Arabs are mad at us. First, I have to ask which Arabs. Second, Jihadists are mad at us because we are standing in the way of their dream of a global Islamic caliphate. Don't take my word for it. Read it in their own publications and communiques.
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Comment by: Rebecca at October 17, 2005 02:09 PM
From my obviously mis-informed husband. But I am not back tracking here... It was most defintely in the high thousands.... We shouldn't be worrying about converting people to our way of life but instead we should be devoting ourselves to helping people here... Right here in our own beloved country!! Starting with hurricane Katrina victims and homeless people... We spend waaay too much money on war with other places that we can't even help our own people!
That is just plain wrong!! And even someone like YOU should feel compassion for Americans!!! You are one right?? I am assuming it to be so!! So let's devote our time and energy into our country and leave the other countries alone!! I believed in the Afghanistan war because it was harboring a fugitive (who I am still not convinced was not also being supported by our gvernment)
But let's not go to every single country in the east and try and convert them!!! Let them make such a decision on their own. Only people with passion are going to do anything to make their government better. If they don't have the passion to be what we want them to be, then it won't work. Unless we are planning on policing them for the rest of their lives!!!
And of course if you only have this group or that group to vote for, you're going to have to vote for someone... But that is not them choosing the people, but only picking the better evil!!! Not the same!!
You know the sad thing is we could really have freedom, true freedom if we could only get rid of the greedy, money hungering politicans poluting this world today!!! But unless we all pull together, it isn't going to happen! And also sadly enough, people like you don't want it to happen!!
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Comment by: Rebecca at October 17, 2005 02:13 PM
Oh and by the way, I am a tree hugging, wolf loving, earth living, flower giving kind of girl!!! And proud of it!!! It is just too bad there isn't a party out there for that!!
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 17, 2005 02:44 PM
That you're only concerned with the well-being of Americans is to your great shame. Compassion means precisely nothing if it does not mean internationalism. And, it so happens, that giving freedom to those abroad DOES better the lives of Americans. If those in the Mideast have representative government, they will be far less likely to sign on with the Bin Ladens of the world. Voting is often a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils. Freedom and democracy are imperfect.
And for you to say that a petrified, beggared, and butchered population such as Iraq should be left on their own to fight for freedom is just cruel. It's the left them eat cake approach to liberation and it is ignoble. If you have a husband you must be an adult. As an adult I beg you to give up paranoid fantasies about Bin Laden working for the US. That, I promise, will get you nowhere. And, how do you propose to bring about this "true freedom"?
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Comment by: Weylin Lighteagle at October 17, 2005 04:09 PM
Globalism-Republican-Democrat-Facist-or Communist? I am sure there will be some like Abraham perhaps or other rednecks loyal to Bush that will try to distort the FACTS I am quoting here by saying I am a racist or even an antisemite! I am in fact half Cherokee Indian and half Jewish. Recently I read a site by an orthodox Jewish Rabbi and I was certainly enlightened by his explanations between a real Jew and a Zionist! Zionist are almost pure globalist. Trying to label politically what Globalist are is like trying to catch dust in the winds. It is when searched out a tad of facist-communist- and alot of gangsterism throwed in with it. Common sense would tell a person even if they did not have a college education like I do that if you export everybodies jobs somewhere overseas then people are not paying into taxes for running the Governemnt or the social programs for the poor. The rich globalist could care less if poor Americans or the working class have a job or not. It is just like Bush Senior said during his campaign that Ross Perot quoted " I do not care if the American people are making computer chips or potato chips! Why should Bush care! The truth is old Prescott Bush was an international banker during the 30's and 40's and owned a bank called commerce union or union commerce. Prescott Bush along with Rockefellar and E H Harriman and George Herbert WAlker SR.-father of the now BArbara Bush funded the Nazi party and Adolph Hitler. It is a matter my friends of congressional record. They were called before the congress back then to answer for charges under the trading with the enemy act. The result was 3 companies of Prescott Bush got seized, and the rich pigs got of the hook by donating a lot of money to the war that was starting up. Adolph Hitler near the end of the war had his money and the Nazi party money under the care of his war industrialist named Thysien. This man escaped to Holland and wire transferred it right back to Mr. Prescott Bush in New York. The funds were seized by the war custodian at that time. however Allen Dulles a longtime employee of Rockefellar later got hisself appointed as war custodian in the early 1950's and then released the Hitler Nazi money right back to Prescott Bush. This is fact not fiction! It is a fact that Zionist own most of the Federal Reserve BAnks in America with the major exception being the Chase branch which is a combination of ex secretary of state REpublican James Baker, Rockefellar , and Rothchild of Britain being the major stockholders. This Bush administration of the DUBYA is no doubt the most lying ,crooked, two faced overt thugs that has ever been in the white house! WE have a man as president whose family done business in the millions of dollars for over 25 years with the Bin Ladens. No damn wonder they cannot find Osama! WE got RE-publican Richard Armitage back in the ring controlling the Northern alliance in Afghanistan, a man who was fired during the Bush SR presidency cause the congress had some documents about him heading up CIA drug smuggling in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam war. WE got old Donald Rumshead, excuse me Rumsfield in the theft ring -an ex drug ceo-no wonder cheaper Canadian drugs legislation does not get approved. WE got old Godfather Dick Cheney- a two time convicted drunkdriver in 1961 and 1962 as Vice President who makes sure the contracts and war machine keeps turning so Haliburton can get rich in the middle east. Now Kellog Brown and Root owned by Haliburton is getting a few billion more dollars off New Orleans. WE got a President named DUBYA that has turned his back on the orthodox Jews of Israel and is forcing them to give up their land to the Arabs cause we want to do oil deals with them. WE got the compound in Kennebunk Maine - a Bush getaway where Barbara Bush put a sign on a bedroom door for Arab Prince Bandar that she calls BANDY BUSH! ANd last but not least I used to think those militias in the 1990's here in America were a bunch of paranoid idiots- until I saw with my own eyes two locations of the ten they spoke of, Yes try to go up on Mt. Mitchell North Carolina now and see for your own SELF how far you get up! They got a UN ARmy there in a underground cave city and armed to the teeth and there is another one on the other side of Gore Oklahoma. It is the new world order-666 coming!
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Comment by: Rebecca at October 17, 2005 04:24 PM
Hey wow, that said it all Weylin!!! As for our other friend up there... Yes, I am an adult and mother of two.... I most definetly care about others in the world... Which is why I don't go around and terrorize them and make a dictatorship out of their country... Cause when you put in a puppet president, (by the way, they got to choose their represenatives but not their president. Hmm Bush did that!! and he is, big shock, an oil guy!)and say that is who you are going to have, that is a dictatorship not democracy!!! That is what we are slowly having here in the US... a dictatorship... We slowly are getting all of our liberties and freedoms taking away... hey soon who knows I could be put in prison for haivng my own brain with my own thoughts... So I will take advantage of them now!!!
How to get true freedom?? Hmm... by getting out all the fascist, zion/globalist out of office, is a start.....
And as much as I enjoy this political ping pong we seem to be having, let me tell you, my views aren't going to change to the money-hungry, power-hungry neo-con side of the board!! I think we will have to agree to disagree!!
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 17, 2005 06:37 PM
Nothing like a lenghty paranoid retread of the old populist theories, inspired by nothing so revelatory as me name, yet. Are any of you unaware of the facr the during Bush's president Israel had for the first time pulled out of Gaza? How does that fit in with your global/zion devil worldview?
And Rebeca, you seem like a kind woman. So I don't think you would have the nastiness to come face to face with an Iraqi who was tortured under Sadam or who watched their child be tortured under Sadam and tell them that you regret the US going over there and deposing him. As a mother and a humanitarian I think you'd have to recognize the meanspiritedness of such a view.
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Comment by: Weylin Lighteagle at October 17, 2005 07:01 PM
Globalist trade deal and the George W. Bush CAFTA TRADE bill payoff! A couple months ago I was reading and old December issue of the Topeka Kansas newspaper. Local farmers were complaining in various letters to the editors that the Bush CAfta trade bill protocols would in the near future put farmers and cattle raisers out of business and make America dependent on foreign food as if dependency on foreign oil was not enough. Well the Cafta bill passed into law. By coincidence two days later I was looking at a 2001 issue of a National Geographic magazine and it had a big article on Southern Argentina. Goooh lee guess what? It just happened to mention that Greek billionaire George Soros had bought several Million acres of farmland and grazing lands there. Now old moneybags Soros is a big cheese member of the Carlile INvestment Group along with former British Prime Minister John Majors, ex cia deputy secretary Frank Carlucci , and Mr. George Bush Senior , who was a front man for the group for a time , but now says he only makes a few 100 grand speaking engagements for the GRoup. Do not be surprised if the Carlile Group and Soros begin supermega cattle ,pork, lamb mutton and other agriventures in South Argentina and wind up flooding the American food market one day with cheap products in order to bankrupt and put all American farmers out of business to become the Sultans of all food sold to the American consumers. George Soros is all over the news and internet in South America as the man who hands out 20 million there , 50 million in cash here to any rebels or political groups ready to otherthrow the governments in Bolivia, Peru, Chile, Ecuador, San Salvidor , basically all the smaller countries except Argentina and Brazil. If you should check out the internet site Amazon watch.com you will also see the trail leads right to Houston Texas and some good ole oil buddies of the Bush family. Native tribal peoples down there are being killed, terrorized and exploited for the sake of making good ole American oil dollars. It is a sad affair and disgusting that the crooked oil companies and this crooked administration of Bush and Cheney has reaped so much death/terror and misery and poverty on so many peoples all over the third world. Now it is happening in America. The Bush new Medicare bill is nothing but more soft money payoffs windfall profits to the Carlile Group who is buying out healthcare and hospital and insurance companies fast as possible to get their hands on billions of Medicare dollars. WE might as well have Al CAPONE in the White HOuse!
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 17, 2005 07:39 PM
I'm giving you a new Cherokee name. From now on you shall be known as: He Who Needs An Editor
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Comment by: Rebecca at October 18, 2005 12:15 AM
No I would hate to see torture. But forcing our views on other people is no better. They do not see us as friends. When shall you get that!!
The world does not see us as friends either. Although I believe a lot of them realize it is the government and not us citizens who are the enemy. But yet we shall all suffer when we anger them! Do not forget 9/11!!
I hate to remember that day and yet we can't forget or we shall be doomed to repeat it!!
To me there is NO parties. I can only say what I believe in and what I don't! And this war I definetly don't believe in. We are there for all the wrong reasons. Perhaps you don't want to believe it, but it is mostly oil and greed and power. Oil is the reason the wolves are being shot via helicopters. They claim it is Caribou, but come,we all know it is the oil there in Alaska! This government is a joke! And I do not believe in it! I would love to, but I don't. I can't believe in a government that only believes in it's self. We need to take our country back, for the people!!! Not just for thr rich people, but for all the people!
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 18, 2005 12:11 PM
There's no evidence that his war is for oil. None. If you have it, show me. And you're not completely correct about how Iraqis view us. Go check out some Iraqi blogs and see what they have to say. You'll be shocked.
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Comment by: grenniespex at October 18, 2005 07:35 PM
Go Rebecca!!!
Everything you have said is so right and so true - you have restored my faith in the American people after my intelligence numbing conversation with 'Dumb'. Thanks. :)
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Comment by: Rebecca at October 18, 2005 10:33 PM
Hey that is what I thought too about you Grenniespex!! Glad to have a fellow sister here!! There are a lot of us still out there!! I have been to plenty of sites where people are wanting to get the Bush admin. out of office!
To the fellow up there, come on even you know it is for oil!! He (meaning Bush) isn't going to come out and say it. Although I bet I could find sites to prove it!!! I bet you could find many Iraqis, probably more than you know, that would say Bush is a dictator!! It is a matter of which side of the coin you are on isn't it?! Usually people who are rallying Bush admin. on, are the rich corporate or upper middle class rich people!!! Believe me I have plenty of them in my family!! I am ashamed to say.
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 19, 2005 01:23 PM
Look at all this mutual congratulation, and yet no one offers me a SHRED of evidence to support your charges.
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Comment by: Rebecca at October 19, 2005 05:41 PM
And yet you offer none to prove your point either!!
I am not here to force my own views on you anyway. And even with viable proof I doubt you would still believe it!!
Sometimes it takes some form of awakening to get one's attention! And maybe someday when you wake up and find you have NO rights anymore you will understand exactely what the Bush administration stands for!!
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 20, 2005 12:25 PM
The burden of proof is not on me. If you think Bush should be impeached, you need evidence. But you have none. Case closed. I win.
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Comment by: Rebecca at October 20, 2005 11:50 PM
You know you're almost funny!! I didn't know we were in a contest... Technically we are suppose to be talking about Viggo's political statement!! I agree with him. Not because he is Viggo, or famous but simply because that has always been my view!!
Although since you seem to want to play a silly game here, I can give you a couple of interesting websites!! Although no doubt even if someone gave you documents stating the true reasons why Bush started this farce of a war, no doubt you still wouldn't believe.Either because you choose to believe the easy Republican way, or you know the truth and just don't care!! But here is something to read!! At least some folks out there might find it interesting enough!
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/21945
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 21, 2005 10:55 AM
The Downing Street memo is not proof of anything. "The intelligence is being set around the policy" merely means the intelligence is being gathered around the policy, not fabricated. You have no proof.
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Comment by: Tamilee at October 21, 2005 07:58 PM
Sadly, Dumb, neither you or any of us "win" with Bush as president. However you have your head so far up Bushs ass you can look out his bellybutton and still not see the truth. You are in denial. Do you watch the news? Do you ever read a newspaper? There is your proof. Are you not aware of the total failure of him and his administration? Well if you ever come up for air...you will see what the rest of us see. The only one Dumb here is you, and unfortunaly you are too dumb to admit the truth.
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Comment by: Paulette at October 21, 2005 11:05 PM
Viggo, you have broken my heart. I thought you may have been a light to all the poor in spirit. I am sad to say that all you are is a follower. You have simply spoken the same old blah, blah blah that I hear from all the other ill informed politically incorrect democrats and self rightious over zealous (as long as I am comfortable) group. Perhaps you forgot that before we went into Iraq thousands of people were tortured and cruelly murdered for a true criminal to stay in office. Or rather should I say on his throne. Perhaps the idea of a maniac blood thirsty character like Sadim is your idea of "the good people"
or perhaps 9/11 wasn't an ideal artistic venue for you. I don't know, but to me those pictures haunt me much more than yours. You have truly dissapointed me. Yes, you are entitled to your opinions and yes I agree if you have the podium use it. I just choose to listen to the well-informed instead.
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 22, 2005 01:50 AM
Tamilee,
What are you blabbering about. Evidence or shut up. Paulette, you are of course 100% correct and humane. How sad that all these sheep just take Michael Moore's word at face value and spit back his naked lies.
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Comment by: Jo Petersen at October 22, 2005 09:58 AM
The Bush Administration has driven hard to impress on the Iraqi's to separate Islam and State yet Bush's choice in Harriet Miers for Supremem Court Justice is based on the fact the she is a dedicated Evangelical. This is just the latest irony in this cronyistic administration. It's uncanny to me that Viggo seems to be in my mind using my words. He may not speak for everyone but he is making my voice heard.
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Comment by: Tamilee at October 22, 2005 10:15 AM
They say they are againist abortion, yet they don't mind one bit letting the child grow to the ripe old age of 18, before sending them to war and letting them die. How very ironic. As usual their actions speak louder than their two-sided mouth. Oh yea, 9/11 HAS NOTHING to do with the war in Iraq!
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Comment by: Rebecca at October 22, 2005 10:54 AM
Yeah I agree 100% with you Tamilee!
As for the "R"'s here, they'll never understand nor are they trying to.
By the way, I am not a democrat, obviously not a republican. I just know what I believe in, and this war is definetly one thing I don't.
I am for the right to bear arms! I do think we need more stricter laws however. In other words, kids should not be able to get a hold of them or criminals. I am for the protection of the environment! I am not for drilling oil in every place across the world!!! I think we need to more seriouly look into free energy! I am for protecting wildlife, especially my favorite, "the wolf". I think it is a sad day when we care more about, money, power, and war then we do our own land and people!! In short our government, as it stands now, is going to ruin our beautiful country. They don't care about terrorism, or freedom. Hey we don't even have that here. They can and do have you arrested for speaking your mind these days on that Homeland Security program they have!!! Saying if you don't agree with us, your as good as a terrorist!
So don't talk to me about what a terrific job we are doing in Iraq, or this ridiclous war! It's all a sham so they can dominate the world and get oil rich in the process!!!
By the way, you have NO PROOF either!!! Except proof of idiocy!!!
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Comment by: Weylin LIghteagle at October 22, 2005 11:26 AM
You say it is not about blood for oil? You say there is no conflict of interest on behalf of Prez Bush? Let me give all simple minded brain-washed neo-cons a history lesson. Bush Senior a yankee from the state of Conn. took some money from his international banker dad Prescott and went to Texas after WW2. He founded Zapata Oil Company ( Domestic . and then Zapata International. It would later be sold to Pennzoil for megabucks and a lotta stock. The current Bush
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Comment by: Weylin Light Eagle at October 22, 2005 11:51 AM
Like Deepthroat said in the Nixon watergate case follow the money! Follow the Bush oil business Zapata Domestic oil, Zapata off shore Aerobusto oil company Spectrum 7, then Harken Energy company in the Persian Gulf off the coast of Iraq today!
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 22, 2005 12:01 PM
You're all astonishing uneducated. Former financial ties have no bearing on what's going on now. Bush does not get one cent from Iraqi oil. If you can produce documents to the contrary, I'll give you $100. DOCUMENTS. Not old news about whose father used to do business with who. There's no smoke AND there's no fire. Are you so naive and unsophisticated that you can't assimilate the fact that everyone who's ever been in any oil deal ever is not still in every ongoing oil deal today? You have nothing. And you may think that 9/11 has nothing to do with Iraq, but I promise you that the only way to make Jihad less enticing is to help Arabs forge democracies with representative government. And that's what we're struggling to do. All you do is repeat lazy paranoid provably false propaganda.
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Comment by: Rebecca at October 22, 2005 03:59 PM
I am curious about you. You are obviously very educated, intelligent fellow. As you are very articulate with your choice of words. So I ask you, are you a public relations debunker for the CIA Republican party? Or are you a CEO of a Zionist owned news media?
I just wonder why you care what all of us think. Why you are trying to brain wash us with your political views. Not too many people here are republican neo-cons! Most of us aren't anyway. This is a free speech message board, but most of us, I would say, are anti-war people. Is that why you are here? To teach us your ways? I was just wondering!!!
Of course talk away, but I must tell you, you'll never change my mind! I think for myself!!!
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Comment by: Paulette at October 22, 2005 05:11 PM
You know I found this site quite by accident. However, I thought it was really a very clever and welcoming place to present your opinions and ideas without prejudice. I can see that it's really a place for one sided thinking. I've been told that some of you folks consider yourselves the "academic intelligent" Ok. I guess that would leave me out, I mostly gauge my opinions on proof or observation of whatever interest me. I believe that we all should try and disagree, agreeably if possible. And why is this site primarily D vs. R? I do have to say that in regards to the person who feels we pro-life and patriotic military people are hypocrits that you couldn't be more wrong. This country bases it's laws according to history and society needs right? So, all throughout history men have fought wars and I believe always will. As a matter of fact in many wars, they used boys to fight. And if I'm not mistaken don't you collegic folks talk alot about ape to man and how men are hunters and fighters and all that stuff. So, why then is it such a problem for 18yr. old men to decide to fight in a war or police action for freedom. If oil is all you guys want to blame war on, I think your all nuts. These boys grow up watching movies about this very thing WAR! Good vs. evil. LOTR or Hamburger Hill or even Ego Mortensens newest History of Violence. It's something that is very pronounced in this country. Violence, war, defending oneself and on and on.. If your going to get mad about kids fighting a war why don't you all start banning kids from watching all these violent films too. After all they want to mimic there heroes right? And just for the record I was pushed by all my so called friends to have an abortion 30 yrs. ago. I am so very grateful that I didn't fall into that mind set of "just get rid of it". Because today, I have the most beautiful, smart and wonderfully talented daughter, and two great grandkids. Three precious lives that may change the world someday. If my grandson ever has to go to war, I will most assuradly worry and be afraid for him, because I love him so. But, I would be more afraid if he and everyone else never went if called to help the persecuted and helpless. We need to remember that the reason we can all be here at this very site reasoning amongst each other is because we are free to do so thanks to all the brave and honorable people that died for us. Sorry, If I have offended anyone here. I hope instead I have shared just a simple woman's opinion. May God bless you all because He has blessed this country for years.
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Comment by: Tamilee at October 23, 2005 11:48 AM
Paulette,
You don't need a college education to know wrong from right. Morals and your conscience, can't be bought with a high priced education. Bush is proof of that. Without even knowing you, I am glad you decided againist an abortion. Children are truly gifts from God, and their life or any life for that matter should not be taken lightly. I am personnaly againist abortion, but will defend the right of a woman to have one, if she feels she should. It is her body, her life. Lets face it some people are not capable of being parents. I live in a "military town", my friends, neighbors, and co-workers are now in Iraq. I am proud of them. They are doing a difficult job, that is not of their making. Most are lower to middle class kids who had no other way to pay for education and suppport their families. There are now 20 year old widows, holding babies who will never see their fathers. Last year I comfroted, the 13 year old son of a solider (he was my sons bestfriend) as he wept over losing his dad. Yes wars have been fought for years, and 18 year olds have died. And I won't disagree with you that society has played a role in that. But I am very aware of the fact that Americans have died for our right to speak our minds. I support yours and I hope you will support mine as well. I will repeat, IRAQ did nothing to us! We invaded another country, who had not asked for our help, we just took it upon ourselves to bomb them. How would you feel if that had been reversed and they decided that Bush was evil and needed to go? I pray that my sons as well as your grandsons never have to go to war, but if they do, I hope its a war that is for the right reason (defense of our country) if not, I hope you'll be just as proud of him, if he stands up and says "This is wrong, and needs to stop" We owe it to the brave men and women who have given us the right to speak over the years. In other words its our duty to see wrong and call it as we see it. If not we are doing a grave diservices to those who have given their lives for us to have that right.
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 23, 2005 11:56 AM
"Zionist owned media"?
Just what kind of paranoid, prejudiced morons have I gotten involved with here? This is what passes for politcal discourse amongst today's left? If I disagree with you then I'm a representative of the Zionist owned media? Certain statements need no further comment from me, and that loathsome scrap of piffle is one of them.
And, Tamilee, we did not bomb the Iraqi people, we are trying to liberate them. Go read an Iraqi blogger and see how they feel about it. You'll find they agree with me. You'll be shocked awake.
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Comment by: Paulette at October 23, 2005 02:45 PM
Tamilee, just one big difference, Bush never tied peoples hands behind their backs and throw them off of a 2 or 3 story building just to see which bones would break first. Nor did he feed anyone to hungry dogs. Nor did he encourage his children to victimize women and brutalize poor people. I'm sorry, maybe you don't feel we needed to be there, but I do. Anytime people are horribly treated guess who has always been there to liberate them? Us even tho they may turn around and hate us for it later like the French. We still can find peace of mind knowing we did something. I'm sure the middle east and others consider us evil. They are taught that by there parents and schools. Yet their 'Allah' Mohamed was a thief and rapist. Look it up. That's who they admire and follow. Someone who thinks killing anyone who isn't muslem is an admirable thing. Bush doesn't profess to tyranny. He strives for all people everywhere the right to choose after all, these Iraqies all have rights to their own bodies too don't they? Saddam is evil incarnate and if you don't see that you've missed the very core reason why we did have to get involved. Most of us unfortunately for the few who still hold to the idea of free society without accountablity still consider the American armed forces the best way to insure your and my right as women to even walk around without a veil or beaten if we even expose are ankles or worse killed if we dare to talk back to a man. I see some of that stuff already starting here in America, I have talked with now liberated muslim women who thank God and America for their very lives and their childrens lives. I'm sorry for the young man dying in Iraq but he did not die in vein he had a tough job to do. But that's what freedom costs. I do by the way respect your opinons also. I just won't ever budge on mine. I was raised in the military and I know exactly why we need to be a real a present force.
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Comment by: Tamilee at October 23, 2005 03:30 PM
Dumb, Dumb, Dumb, We did not bomb the Iraq people? You are totally clueless. I guess we were dropping those "smart" bombs over their houses, just hoping like hell they would not hit anybody. What was "shock N Awe" a fireworks display? At last count about 10,000 Iraq people have been killed. Guess that was just the "bird flu" huh.
Paulette, I don't doubt that Saddam was an evil man, tho some would even say (myself) that so is Bush. I seem to recall seeing lots of pictures and hearing stories of Iraq prisoners in American hands being tortured, and Bush being all in favor of it. Bush and his entire administration are hopless failures. That is a fact I will not budge on!
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 23, 2005 03:41 PM
Tamilee,
At last one of you has presented a statistic, and I couldn't be more appreciative. You are right, coalition forces killed, though, not targeting civilians, 10,000 Iraqis in two and a half years of warfare. Are you aware of how many Iraqis Saddam killed in an average year? The answer is 15,000 to 20,000. That would mean that in the same time coaliton forces killed 10,0000, Saddam would have killed 50,000. You have demonstrated, through statistics, why the US operation over there is a humane and noble one. Not only have reduced civilian deaths, but we are also offering Iraqis a future. Something that was an impossibility under Saddam. Thank you for proving my point. This is why I always call for an honest analysis of FACTS. Rumor and innuendo makes for impotent arguments.
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Comment by: Tamilee at October 23, 2005 07:49 PM
Wow! Dumb you take such joy in knowing "only" 10,000 were killed. You must just be thrilled that "only" 2,000 Americans have died with "only" 50,000 injured, maimed and disfigured. Gee what do you do for fun in your spare time? Pull wings off of butterflies? Pinch little babies? The truth of the matter is NO ONE know how many Iraq people would have died had Bush not put his 2 cents into the mix. But we all know how many Americans would have died had Bush not Started this war. ZERO! Being so delighted at death, makes me wonder why a "man" such as yourself don't give up your life on the keyboard and go help dear ole Bush on his quest to control the world and all its oil.
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 23, 2005 11:46 PM
Tamilee, that frivolous schoolyard crap just won't do when we're talking about lives and deaths and mercy and justice. When you write that stuff about me, in this context, I assure it isn't I whom you offend but all those who have died under Saddam, whose lives have been saved by the coalition, and whose lives have been lost in the liberation of Iraq. Such matters demand more seriousness than you've brought to bare, and you should be ashamed to insult the sacrifices of the brave and tragic people involved. We all know perfectly well that I was happy about the DECREASE in loss of life. And all you can do in the face of all of this is try to insult me and bleat one more line about Bush and oil-control.
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Comment by: Tamilee at October 24, 2005 08:48 AM
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Why the very name you have given yourself is both insulting, inflamatory, and slanderous. Its you who should be ashamed, for supporting a president and a war that has caused nothing but pain, and death. And has resulted in the division of this great country. Support Bush and his lies all you want, name call all you want. There will always be those of us who see the truth of the matter, and neither you or the corrupt Bush administration can shut us up.
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 24, 2005 01:14 PM
No one has ever been able to silence the forces of hysteria and paranoia. And I wouldn't really like to. People like you are part of the political landscape and you help shape future directions. The more you go on, without evidence, about a lying president, the sillier your case looks. You tend to bury yourselves. My calling some Hollywood actor dumb is hardly the same as you belittling the lives saved by US and Iraqi/Kurdish military action. Do you have evidence of lies? Do you have evidence of "blood for oil"? These are the questions I repeatedly put to you and your fellow travellers, and you never respond. You are free to rant as long as you like. All that matters in the end is that democracy is taking root, and dictators are being tried for the crimes. All this other nonsense about evil Zionists and shady business deals will end up in the ashbin of history, which is where it was recycled from to begin with.
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Comment by: Tamilee at October 24, 2005 07:54 PM
Blah, Blah, Blah, you are really starting to bore me. Like I said before the evidence is there. You just refuse to see it. Its people like me and the others on this board who speak out against the wrongs who have made this country great. Those like you are the ones who follow blindly behind the so called "elected leaders" then find themselves with a dictator. Bush is just another name for Hitler. The Iraq people at one time probally thought saddam was great too...look where it has got them.
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Comment by: Paulette at October 24, 2005 08:42 PM
Ok, I have a question to pose. The last 3 presidents all believed there were nuclear weapons in Iraq right? They also wanted to go to war right?So, why is it that because this president decides to do something about it and show some gonads he's considered evil? Did anyone ever think that maybe they moved they're WMD's to Syria? You know one thing for sure the terrorist factions all seem to cover each others backs, which unfortunately we as Americans refuse to do.
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 25, 2005 05:58 AM
Tamilee,
If "Blah, Blah, Blah" is your best evidence of administration crimes, I'd say your case is sunk. I ask you, simply, for evidence, and you have none. What more is there to say. You have lost. And done so with a flair for public humiliation.
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Comment by: Tamilee at October 25, 2005 07:57 PM
What a joke you are dumb...watch the news tonight? Things not going to well with your buddy. His polls are wayyyy down and he is trying so very hard to show he cares. His partner in crime, Cheney soon to be known as a liar, his fiasco of a Social Security plan, the mess he got hisself into with Katrina, the joke of a nominee Miers (she thinks he's the most brilliant man she's ever met, the woman needs to get out more) Rice said we may be in Iraq 10 years, and of course the failing economy. The man is a joke, and so are you. Your the only one left standing looking the fool, for supporting a president who is clearly a complete failure at everything he tries to do. The American people have finally figured that out too. I'm through talking to you dumb, clearly you are demented, living in a lala land of your own making, and unable to see what is so clearly in your face. Continue spewing your make-believe stories...about 38% of America is stilling buying it. However I am not one of them.
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 25, 2005 10:59 PM
I've never said I "support" the president. Not once will you find that in any of my comments. What I said was you have no evidence that he lied to the US about Iraq or that he or Cheney were making money from the war there. I still BEG YOU for such evidence. And you still have none. I'm afraid that only one of us here is "spewing make believe stories," and it is clear from the above record that it is you. I have never said anything that cannot be backed up, whereas you do so repeatedly. You are a mere sheep in a chorus of simaler sheep, without conscience, reason, truth, or, above all, proof. Did YOU see the news today? A constitution was ratified in Iraq. That means a lot more to me than Bush's approval rating or Meirs' acceptance. But you have no cerebral capacity for the important things. You merely want to go on about polls and fake stories about lies. You have argued yourself into an indefensable and infantile corner. You have no tenable position. But the Iraqis do have a constitution. And I am pleased with both phenomena.
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Comment by: Weylin LIghteagle at October 26, 2005 10:46 AM
what we do know and seen Proof of on the TV news about Iraqi war is this. The whole country was drawn out into grids with construction firms names as to what contractors would get contracts on 6 to 9 months before we even invaded or made the case before the UN. What we do know proof wise also is this the White HOuse sent a inquiry to the CIA asking whether there was a proveable tie to Osama bin Laden's group, the CIA sent an answer that was a negative, and then Dick Cheney sent the report back to the CIA with a note on it that simply stated (Wrong Answer)Yeah SAddam is a scumbag but what scumbags put him in power and armed him with gas and other weapons? None other than REagan and GEORGE BUSH Senior!
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Comment by: Weylin LIghteagle at October 26, 2005 11:46 AM
This is not a paranoid site of morons, only a group of people that want the truth to come out-we got a bunch of neocon crooks in the White House! This is not a right wing or left wing thing it is a middle of the road political search for the truth and about justice!The orthodox Jews know what neocons like Bush will lead to-the return to the gas chamber and rise to Nazi anitisemitisms! Unfortunately the Zionist media escalating the neocon movement for a war profit will in the end be doublecrossed by the neocons as they were in ww2. NBC- Zionist owner Edgar Bronfman,Viacom and CBs Zionist owner Sumner Redstone, Disney Empire and ABC owner Zionist Michael Eisner,Associated Press owner ZionistMichael Silverman,and the list goes on and on to include the New York Times, Washington Post,Dow Jones STock Exchange-and WAll STreet Journal ownerZionist Peter Kann!and all the central banks of America, Germany , France and Britian all Zionist owned and Bush is their puppet make war for money stooge! Want their names? Benjamin Meyer aka Rothchild and his brother in France- the Warburgs and the list goes on and on!They own most of the Federal Reserve Banks in America!
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 26, 2005 12:33 PM
These "Zionist media" tales are not new, and they've grown no less laughable over time. By the way, Kennedy was the first US President to support the Baathists and then Jimmy Carter gave Saddam a massive helping hand in the seventies. Now, the fact that the US is somewhat responsible for putting him in power and supporting him certainly only INCREASES our debt to the Iraqis who suffered under him. The only way to pay that debt is to get him out. Or would you just like to keep letting all of them sufffer for our mistake? And Halliburton's plans to rebuild Iraq were drawn up during the Clinton administration after Clinton awarded them no-bid contracts. All one need to do is deal in the hard facts to see your argument fall to shreds. But you won't do that because it's more exciting, in a juvenile way, to talk about shady Zionist conspiracies. You're nothing more than a sub-literate representative of the fringey populist movement that rears its silly head in times of crisis. You and your felow travellers will be laughed back into the margins as you always are. I'll be laughing loudest. I already am.
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Comment by: Weylin LIghteagle at October 26, 2005 01:58 PM
it is obvious that you are a proneo just like CNN news! In fact you probably do not even know that President JFK had signed an executive order just 2 weeks prior to his death in Dallas to do away with the Federal Reserve Banking system so America could own it's own banks instead of a bunch of Zionists like you and the ones I mentioned above! That is probably the reason he HAD to be killed. In a Eutopian idealisti view I would like to see every Arab in Israel exiled to Southern Saudi Arabia and the Mosque bulldozed down for Israel belongs to the orthodox Jewish people not the Zionist bankers and media owner. Bush and his daddy need to be tried for treason and war crimes and if found guilty ought to be hanged on the White HOuse lawn along with Big Coporate gangsters and their PMC's Private Military hoodlums murdering people all over the world. As for the Zionist creating havoic and chaos for profit and their puppets they need to be exiled to Siberia for good and their monies redistributed to every human alive on this planet which would be about 15 million dollars per man-woman and child! All you Zionist care about is more money , more money , more money regardless of the needless destruction of human life and the environment! You are traitors to the real Jewish people and nation of Israel and the whole human races of the world. Publicani is the word that best defines you Zionist who believe in no God at all , nor Moses , nor Jesus Christ. You worship gold-money and you are of the synagogue of Satan and Christ stated in the Bible!
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Comment by: dumb Viggo at October 26, 2005 02:13 PM
You have gotten one thing right. I do not believe in any God at all. Aside from that, the above screed is remniscent of nothing so much as the scribblings of decompensating schizophrenics. Tell the truth now, have you ever been hospitalized for a psychotic episode?
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Comment by: Weylin Lighteagle at October 26, 2005 04:22 PM
Bravo! Bravo! Mr. Dumb (Abraham) I am glad you finally came out with the truth about yourself as you stated above-you believe in no-God at all. So much for all of your so-called neo-con moral values you espoused. You must be one of those perverts that go to the Bohemian Grove Club in Northern California with all them moral upright people like the Bushes where they sacrafice animals before a 30 feet tall stone owl symbol of the God Molech in the Bible-yeah a blood thirsty Demon God of the Syrians where they burned children alive. You are a Zionist puke that supports both sides of the political aisles so as to keep politically correct and butt kiss to keep on making money and control behind the scenes. You are a debunking spook nothing more not worth a responese of a computer key.
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Comment by: Paulette at October 26, 2005 05:05 PM
Geesh! I'd hate to meet either one of you guys in person! Your scarey!! I think I'll stop coming here for awhile and wait and see what happens on Fox News. Them I understand.
Bye
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Comment by: Weylin LIghteagle at October 28, 2005 11:05 AM
This is my last post so I will state it loud and blunt whether these NEO Cons like it or do not like it! This economy is so bad working class people and the poor in the deep South USA are having to choice between buying food or buying heating oil or heating gas for the winter while DUBYA Bush's buddies in the oil business recorded record breaking profits on CNN news yesterday. GW BUSH aka George Herbert HOOver WAlker Bush is the crookiest, lyingest doublecrossing, two faced SON OF A BITCH that has ever been in the White HOUSE.They ask what his legacy will read? LIke DECEMBER 7th 1941 this bastard -his-name and his families name will go down in INFAMY! HIM and his crooked ass brothers are lower than Whale DUNG on the bottom of the OCEAN and you would have to scrap the bottom most rock in the lowest pit in hell with a razor blade to find lower son of a bitches than them!
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Comment by: liza at October 28, 2005 11:24 AM
Note to "The Byrd":
Nobody disses my imaginary boyfriend on my blog. NOBODY!
You've got ban.
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Comment by: liza at October 28, 2005 11:35 AM
Weighlin, please don't go. I have enjoyed your riposts. As to Mr. Dumb, not only do you have nothing to say but you are flame baiting people here and attacking them personally. You've been banned.
As to whether there is proof of Bush's lying, there is more than circumstancial evidence that when he said now infamous "16 words" during his 2003 State of the Union Address, he not only knew Saddam had no WMDs; but Valerie Plame's identity had been outed.
It smells like obstruction of justice and perjury to me --two legal terms that cover that ethical faux-pas we call LYING.
This is going to be one long Fitzmas.
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Comment by: Rebecca at October 28, 2005 04:16 PM
Thank You liza,
I could not have said it better myself!!! I was getting tired too, of The byrd spamming and mr.Dumb's no nonsense messages!! Who couldn't seem to come up with anything himself about why Bush is sooo great! Or why he thinks the war is great!!! He knew no one could get documents since most likely they are in the White House!!! I don't mind people dis-agreeing with me as long as they are not cutting and insulting and saying "I win"!!! Like we were in some contest!!!
I really have enjoyed the other posts here though!!! So thank you for this site!!!
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 28, 2005 07:23 PM
Liza,
Flame baiting?
What I have been doing is trying to make you meet your responsibility to reason and to truth. Look back at the vitriol my very first comments inspired. I have been called everything under the sun, and all for asking for evidence. This Weighlin fellow, a clearly unhinged individual whom you do a disservice by encouraging, has just called me a "Zionist puke" based largely on the fact that my name is Abraham. Yet you urge this bigot to keep up with the thoughtful comments and ban ME for repeatedly asking for evidence. (By the way, there are so many discrepancies in Joe Wilson's account of things that no one can take his charges seriously. While we know the president cited an uncredible report, we have no knowledge that he did so knowingly. Plus, the international community has long been of the consensus that Saddam was doing yellowcaje deals in Niger--lying, indeed!) Do not think that such prejudiced intolerance will be swept under the rug. You can be sure that the entire record of my interaction on, and subsequent ban from, your blog will become better known, and that you will come out looking much the worse for it. Good night.
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Comment by: Dumb Viggo at October 28, 2005 07:28 PM
And Rebecca. . .
I've noted that you admit in your last comment that there is no evidence. That's a good start. Keep following that truth.
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Comment by: Tamilee at October 29, 2005 10:12 AM
Good job Liza, on both accounts. As far
as I'm concerned...2 down (Miers and Libby) 5 more to go. P.S. Love the site, great job...you have wonderful taste in men.
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Comment by: Weylin LIghteagle at October 29, 2005 11:36 AM
Bush THE MACHO MAN Warrior? WE all probably watched the wrestling type hype when DUBYA BUSH landed on the aircraft carrier months back and said mission accomplished and heard him again say bring it on to terrorist killing our young men and women in the military in IRAQ. THE truth is BUSH is more like MR. WIMP in reality. AT YALE he could not even make 3rd string on any sports team at all so he opted to be the head cheerleader of the girls squad and he wore a wig and a dress and looked sorta like Robert Deniro did all dressed up as the maid he killed in the movie Cape Fear! ONE of his professors at Yale remember DUBYA as that young man who always sit on the backroll of his classrooms chewing red man chewing tobacco and spitting in a styrofoam cup who made mostly all C's and C minus's. One of DUBYA's first chance's to make it in the corporate business world was in fact with the Carlisle INVESTMENT GROUP he was hired by thanks to his father. That job was short lived as the CEO told DUBYA I do not know why you are even here- all you do is hang around here and make corny jobs and you have not made any profitable deals for us at all. Before he got himself fired for being and ignorant dufus DUBYA walked out saying I never really liked it here anyway. So we got a PREZ who could not even make it in a lower middle management or entry level position at any corporate or business type job as the President of the UNITED States!
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Comment by: Weylin LIghteagle at October 31, 2005 12:08 PM
Bush ABOVE THE Law? About 4 weeks ago I read the site that one of the researchers of the Anthrax poison that was mailed out months ago to certain politicians like Tom Daschle. The Jewish researcher was named Horowitz I beleive and he was a member of a 12 person team trying to determine where the stuff was made. He stated that 2 of the researchers had committed suicide after the team had determined that the anthrax contained 500,000 parts per billion. He said only two companies in the world are capable of making anthrax that strong and not even the Russians could do it let alone terrorist. Those two companies were Porton Downs in England and the Ames Corporation in the US. Horowitz got scared quit his job lost his pension and moved his family to a rural area of the Northwestern United STates for safety purposes. Is it another one of a long line of conicidences that those two firms are owned by the CARlisle INvestment Group with a definite tie to BUSH Senior and EX prime minister John Majors? Is it just coincidence that the CArlisle Group owns American Defense Contractors an got a whooping 16 billion dollar defense contract off the Iraq WAr? Now the REpublican neo cons like to tout Bill Clinton for his sexual conduct. How about Gannon Gate! And if any of you want to see how Gannon GAte ties in then just go to www.tedgunderson.com and click on Franklin Coverup article. Ted Gunderson by the way is a retired special agent of the FBI and was in charge of Los Angeles DEPT of the FBI until his retirement after 29 years service in 1979. The man was Law Enforcement officier of the year back then along with many other merits.
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Comment by: Bruce at October 11, 2005 03:12 PM