Check Out "5 English Lessons From the Anti-Immigrant Movement"

Given that I took this photo at the Morristown ProAmerica Rally I can attest to its authenticity. Those men in the picture are from Stormfront a white supremacist group. While misspelling and grammatical faux pas happen quite often in this case they demonstrate bigotry through stupidity.

What's important to note about the above picture is that these white supremacists were harassing the counter protesters rather than listening to the anti-immigrant speeches. Apparently they prefer to destroy things rather than support them. To this group harassing those with opposing views was more important than supporting the “patriots” that put the rally together.

So the signs are part of the issue. While we can laugh at their stupidity we're also demonstrating the idiocy and empty rhetoric brought by the hatred of others.

Stormfront is made up of a bunch of losers who cannot face up to their own failures so they blame others for it. Bigots like Stormfront can't take responsiblity for their own lives so they try to denegrate anyone different than them so they can feel better about themselves. It is disgusting. Remember folks, the Nazis got their asses kicked and they deserved to get their asses kicked. Neo-Nazis worship losers like Hitler because they themselves are losers.

Am not American?

Well, but of course not!

I am a US citizen first and foremost and for me the upholding the values and principles of the US CONSTITUTION is more important the upholding unconstitutional rules of law.

The Patriot Act is unconstitutional.

Homeland Security was created under an unconstitutional law.

ICE is now an agency waging an unconstitutional "enforcement" war against undocumented residents of the United States.

If believing the US Constitution is more important that the Rule of Law, then I am HAPPY you don't consider me an American. I can totally live with that.

Please go and examine the immigration laws of Mexico and see what you find. I can tell you that they make the immigration laws of the US seem like child's play. Why aren't you protesting their immigration laws? I wonder? Regardless, we, as every single country in the world have immigration laws for a reason. It is up to us, and not foreign citizens on who we take, and how many we will take. It is completely unfair to ask the American people to absorb millions of foreign migrants into their welfare system, or schools, and I wouldn't even get into the crime rate in the boarder states all of which is the fault of illegal immigration. The government has the responsibility to the American people to uphold our laws. Our laws don't begin and end with the Constitution. To say that tells me you know very little about our Constitution. Our Constitution is a starting point which can be amended and then there is both Federal and State laws all of which reflect the will of the American people. It is simple, if you want to immigrate to the US then do it legally, and if not then you have broken the laws and are no better than a criminal.

The US Constitution is the law of the land. Anything that violates it is, by definition, unAmerican. Sadly, that has been the process that Bush has led: the dismantling of the rights and the checks and balances laid forth by our founding fathers. You are right that there is an amendment process, but the Patriot Act is not such an amendment. It is a law that is counter to both the letter and intent of the Constitution. This does not mean that immigration laws (or at least all immigration laws) are unConstitutional. However, the current methods of law enforcement implemented by the Bush Administration, whether in the name of anti-terrorism or anti-immigration, are unConstitutional.

As to discussing the laws of Mexico, that seems like a straw man argument to me. No one in this discussion is a citizen of Mexico. We are all citizens of the US. Should we be satisfied if our system is merely better than the worst around us? Should we be satisfied if we can point to North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Saudi Arabia and China and say, "well, they're worse than us?" I think we are better than that. Maybe your faith in America is so weak that you are satisfied that we merely are better than the worst. But I think we have our own ideals to live up to. And we are blatantly failing to do that.

We do sometimes talk about other nations here on CK. I myself have discussed many. But right now we are talking about America and I think our standards for our own nation have to be better than you seem to advocate.

You must not understand the US Constitution? First of all it is made to be amended. That is the purpose of our Congress to make and amend laws, and the Supreme Court. It isn't a stagnate thing which never changes. Secondly, the US Constitution is meant for US citizens. Just because someone from S. America illegally entered this country doesn't mean they are US citizens, or entitled the rights of US citizens. If you illegally enter this country from, say, Mexico, or Columbia, or wherever you came from, that is the country which you are a citizen of. You can apply for citizenship here, but it must be done legally, by our rules, our laws, and the country can only absorb so many people. When too many immigrants create a hardship on the US citizens then that is far too many immigrants entering this country. When American jobs are being taken by illegal workers willing to work for less that drives down wages and drives up unemployment. It is up to us, the US Citizen to decide who we take and how many, and we use our laws to protect us although sadly our government has taken a half-hearted stand against illegal immigration. Again, there is simply nothing fair about it for the American people. The American people are left to carry the burden caused by these millions upon millions of illegals. It must be stopped!

and some of you nativist friends are even suggesting that the 14th amendment doesnt apply to the US-born children of non-residents because they're neither slaves nor citizens. so make up your friggin' mind, is it fluid or is strict reading that you white supremacists are going to use to justify your violent idiocy?

The US Constitution has 27 amendments to the US Constitution. However, only 17 of them qualify as "changes", because the first 10, collectively referred to as the "Bill of Rights", was ratified WITH the Constitution itself. The Constitution is a living document meant to change with the times. The founding fathers wanted it that way since they knew if it was a stagnant and unchangable document then it would lead to problems down the road. The purpose of Congress is to pass laws and those laws range from everything like how fast you can drive on a highway to the requirements of immigration. To live in this country you agree that you are not above the law and you will obey it. That is the cost of civilization and the price of living here. If you break the laws then you are marked as a criminal and if you are in this country illegally then you are in fact breaking our laws and should pay for it. Every country has immigration laws and the US is no different. Without them the US would be flooded with people from all over the world which would cause great problems for the citizens here. The US allows immigration and its system is open to all people. Unfortunately too many people come to this country especially from South and Central America. It isn't fair for people who are in Asia, or Africa, or Europe who may want to come here, but can't because the US is overwhelmed with these people from South and Central America. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to live in that part of the world either, but the US can only take so many people and it is up to the US how many they will take and not up to South or Central Americans. Either you obey the laws of this land or you don't and if you don't then you shouldn't be here since you miss the point of being an American. It is a land which lives by the rule of law in which no one person or group is above the law.

Seems you don't understand the Constitution. First off, I recognized that the Constitution can be amended...but the Patriot Act is NOT an amendment. It is a law enacted by Congress. Perhaps you are not aware that these are very different things. And, by the way, contrary to what you seem to be saying, the Supreme Court has NOTHING to do with Constitutional Amendments. Yes, Congress has a role in that as do State Legislatures.

All you do is repeat the line that it must be done legally. Fine. But if the legal means do not fulfill the free market labor needs, you get illegal immigration. The current laws aren't working. Enforcement isn't the problem. An imbalance of labor demand and labor supply is. As long as there is that imbalance, there will be illegal immigration. If the laws aren't working, then the laws need changing. Your produce prices are kept low because of those very illegals you complain about. Are you willing to pay twice the price? Maybe, but you have to recognize that is a real consequence of what you demand. Add to those higher agricultural prices higher taxes to pay for stricter enforcement of immigration laws. You are advocating both inflation and higher taxes. You have to recognize that.

If you want to advocate for immigration law reform, most people will agree with you. But to simply demand stricter enforcement of laws that don't match reality and will cause higher taxes and higher prices (higher construction prices as well, of course) is illogical.

Why are you talking about the Patriot Act for? I'm talking about illegal immigration and even legal immigration when it gets to the point of being too much to a society to handle in terms of economic and social. The laws we have on the books regarding immigration come way before those of this Patriot Act, so lets not cloud, distract, or deflect from the issue. Lastly on laws, there are several levels of laws in the US beginning with Federal, then State and then local all of which are meant to reflect the will of the people. You simply can't take this law and ignore that just because of some lunitic fringe idea that one law may work for you but other don't. Everyone must live and abide by the same laws. That is the price of living in this civilization. Say, you don't believe in the private property of other, so you go and take your neighbor's car. That is called stealing and is obviously against the law and you, as the theif, must pay for your actions. There is no difference whatsoever if someone enters this country illegally and willfully breaks the laws here, be it by enter illegally, or identity theft, or any other number of laws a person might break. Also, the majority of people will not respect someone who breaks the laws which is why these illegals get no respect from most Americans.

I've answered your claim regarding this need for foreigner workers and again, look at our rising unemployment rate, look at that same rate when it is broken down for US citizens without a high school diploma which is nearly three times that of the national average. US workers come first and not foreign nationals. With the downturn with the economy is taking we are hardly in a position to be offering work to anyone other than citizens of the US. If we have a need for other workers then obviously it isn't too difficult to fill that need. It can be done legally through the US work visa program. That way we determine who and how many can come into this country to work. As it is at the moment, there are over 21,000,000 people here illegally! Most we don't even know anything about them. Are they hear to commit crime? Could some here illegally be terrorists? We just don't know because our government isn't doing a good enough job with securing our boarders. There isn't a nation in the world which does any less. Again, you ask the people of the US to pay the cost associated with these illegal immigrants. If I move to LA and apply for a driver's license then I must pay an impact fee for moving there. That fee not only pays for me, but for these illegals who don't pay this fee, so I pay more. I, as a US citizen, am forced to pay for these people who are not even my fellow countrymen. I have to pay higher taxes because these people want the US to pay for their children's education, or for their welfare. All of which is wrong and all of which are reasons we have laws against this type of abuse of our system.

Constitutional law supercedes all other laws. The Patriot Act is now being used as part of enforcement of immigration laws. The Patriot Act violates the Constitution.

As to obeying all laws, I am quite happy Rosa Parks broke the law. I am quite happy the people involved in the Underground Railroad broke the law. I am not necessarily saying immigration laws are comparable. In fact usually they aren't and all nations have a right to regulate their borders (an arguement I make regarding Israel often). But some aspects of enforcement include Patriot Act derived laws that are probably unConstitutional.

Illegal immigrants do benefit from American education but not welfare. That is an old myth easily disproven. Illegal immigrants pay a substantial amount in sales tax and receive little benefits from our taxes, education aside. You are ALSO paying even more money to keep them out due to the cost of enforcement. You leave out that side of the equation even as you inflate the benefits immigrants get.

As to terrorism, remember that every single person involved with 9/11 was in this country LEGALLY. Not one single act of terrorism has been committed by an illegal immigrant. This is not to say there aren't crime issues associated with ANY immigration, but to link it to terrorism is a red herring.

As to labor demands, you continue to ignore the fact that there IS a labor shortage in those areas where immigrants (legal and illegal) are the main source of workers, and unemployed citizens do not fill those labor needs. You ignore the existing agricultural labor shortage which is adding to inflation. SO why do you keep ignoring it? Is it because it doesn't fit into your overlysimplifyed view of the world where all America's ills can be blamed on the guys who pick your fruit and clean up your tables at a restaurant?

Our immigration laws are just and fair because they protect the US citizen from over immigration. They protect our social services from abuse and they protect our borders. It is imperative to not allow criminal elements into this country through our weak border or worse than that we don't make it easy for terrorists to enter. If I was a terrorist looking to get into this country I would fly down to South America and follow the illegal immigrant trails. It is irrelevant that some of the 9-11 terrorists were here legally, that was a different day and it changes nothing. The world changed after 9-11 which is perhaps a fact you need to wake up to, but from your photo it looks like you are too busy playing Viking.

Look, the facts are simply, if you want to immigrate to this country then do so legally. I did and I'm proud of that fact and I will never give one ounce of respect to anyone who came into this country illegally. I followed the laws of the US because I respect this country and this countries laws. Those who are here illegally don't. I wanted to be a law abiding citizen and I worked hard to be so. I don't want anyone else braking our laws simply because it doesn't suit them.

Again with your labor shortage myth? If our unemployment rate was below 4% I would have to agree that maybe we are in need of workers, but sadly it isn't and worse than that it is on the rise. When unemployment goes up then watch how quickly the welcome mat is taken away from even legal immigrants. Those numbers must be cut back or US citizens will suffer. Add that to the fact that wages from these meanial jobs are being driven down thanks to illegal immagration and you have a whole host of problems plagueing the United States all thanks to illegal immigration.

Finally, let it be put to a vote by the American people and let the American people decide. It is their country after all so why not put it to a vote and lets see Democracy at work. I bet you that the American people would vote to stop illegal immigration in its tracks. They would vote to secure our borders and they would vote to restrict the use of our social services, protect our jobs and wages.

Again, same old line, refusing to address the real issues.

Okay, let's put it to a vote if the American people want higher taxes and increased inflation because of these immigration laws. I bet they will be far more reluctant if they actually knew the consequences of what you advocate.

No...illegal immigration does not let terrorists in any more than regular immigration or regular travel does. Pretty much every terrorist attack in history, up until this very year, has been committed by either a US citizen or legal immigrant. None by illegal immigrants. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it means it is a silly arguement. And don't play the terrorism card on me. I was in NYC when Bush's ineptitude allowed the 9/11 terrorists to hit us and the ashes of my fellow New Yorkers fell like a light snow over my neighborhood that night. The morgue where they took the bodies was right next door to where I work and the smell was unforgettable. So I know the direct consequences of terrorism and I don't want the US government wasting its time and money on red herrings.

As to the labor shortage in certain sectors, yes...it is real. And it isn't new, it has been extensively written about since 2005. Here is a sampling of articles from several states and sources, both liberal and conservative:

2005:
http://www.workpermit.com/news/2005_12_27/us/california_faces_labor_shor...

http://www.cfbf.com/agalert/AgAlertStory.cfm?ID=431&ck=66368270FFD51418E...

2007:
http://www.turnto23.com/news/14296416/detail.html

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-10/2007-10-10-voa21.cfm?CFID...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15503698

2008:
http://agnews.tamu.edu/showstory.php?id=351

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008808140410

http://www.americanfruitgrower.com/immigration/

non-ag example: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/17/america/NA-GEN-US-Immigration-...

So stop sidestepping the issue. Are you for reforming our current immigration laws to better respect the labor needs of America, America's labor laws, as well as American's borders, or are you in favor of increasing taxes and accepting inflation to maintain our current ineffective laws? Which is it? Why do you keep ducking the question?

Please do put it to a vote and see if Americans in this econonic downtown will allow cheap labor to enter this country and compete with them, see if they will allow wages to be driven down, see if they will want to pay higher taxes to subsidize the Illegal alien communities here, or allow the overuse of their social systems. America did fine without these millions of illegal aliens before and they are simply not needed nor wanted. It should be up to the American people to decide and not Mexico, or any country south of the border.

~ "Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household."

I was just reading that now in the UK they have begun a program to protect their jobs from not only illegal workers but foriegne workers. In the UK you now have to have a special license given by the government to bring in outside workers and that licience cost a couple thousand dollars and several hundred dollars per worker. Plus the workers must be proven to have skills needed in the UK. Now that is smart! The UK is doing what it takes to protect its wages, its workers and its jobs. It goes further by discouraging employers from exploiting cheap foriegne labor.

In Italy they just passed a law which make illegal immagration a crime which will land the offender in prison before being deported. Again, they are doing what is nessiasary to defend their jobs and their way of life.

All nations have immigration laws and as far as I know the US has the most lax laws on the planet, which is now causing its citizens some grief. Most of these illegals are from Mexico. Below are some of the Mexican requirements regarding immigration. Perhaps it is time for the US to get some tougher laws if only to discourage the flood of humanity from landing upon our shores.

1. If you migrate to this county, you must speak the native language

2. You have to be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers
allowed.

3. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no
special ballots for elections, all government business will be
conducted
in our language.

4. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they
are here.

5 Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.

6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no
food
stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs.

7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount
equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

8. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT
options will be restricted. You are not allowed waterfront property.
That is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

9. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign
flag, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his
policies, if you do you will be sent home.

10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down
and sent straight to jail.

This below is from the Mexican Constitution. They want us to take their citizens, but don't offer the same in return to the US or any other nation. Whatever happened to the idea of Quid Pro Quo? http://www.ilstu.edu/class/hist263/docs/1917const.html

4-5, 9: Article 33: "Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country." (See also Article 35 listing the prerogatives of Mexican citizens.)

5: Article 32: "In order to belong to the National Navy or the Air Force, and to discharge any office or commission, it is required to be a Mexican by birth. This same status is indispensable for captains, pilots, masters, engineers, mechanics, and in general, for all personnel of the crew of any vessel or airship protected by the Mexican merchant flag or insignia It is also necessary to be Mexican by birth to discharge the position of captain of the port and all services of pratique and airport commandant, as well as all functions of customs agent in the Republic."

5: Article 55: "The following are the requirements to be a deputy:
I. To be a Mexican citizen by birth, in the exercise of his rights;"

Article 59 extends makes the requirements to be a Senator the same as a deputy, except for age. Article 82 require the President to be " Mexican citizen by birth, in the full enjoyment of his rights, and the son of Mexican parents by birth". Article 91 states that to be a secretary, you have to be a Mexican citizen by birth, too. Article 95 extends the requirement of Mexican citizenship by birth to ministers of the Supreme Court of Justice. Article 115 requires governors to be Mexican citizens by birth. Article 130 limits ministers of any religion in Mexico to Mexican citizens by birth.

8: Article 27: "Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters. The State may grant the same right to foreigners, provided they agree before the Ministry of Foreign Relations to consider themselves as nationals in respect to such property, and bind themselves not to invoke the protection of their governments in matters relating thereto; under penalty, in case of noncompliance with this agreement, of forfeiture of the property acquired to the Nation. Under no circumstances may foreigners acquire direct ownership of lands or waters within a zone of one hundred kilometers along the frontiers and of fifty kilometers along the shores of the country."

“In brief, the Mexican Constitution states that:

* Immigrants and foreign visitors are banned from public political discourse.
* Immigrants and foreigners are denied certain basic property rights.
* Immigrants are denied equal employment rights.
* Immigrants and naturalized citizens will never be treated as real Mexican citizens.
* Immigrants and naturalized citizens are not to be trusted in public service.
* Immigrants and naturalized citizens may never become members of the clergy.
* Private citizens may make citizens arrests of lawbreakers (i.e., illegal immigrants) and hand them to the authorities.
* Immigrants may be expelled from Mexico for any reason and without due process."

Sounds harsh doesn't it? And this from the very government who is insisting we not do anything to control the flood of Mexicans entering this country.