Faux Think Tank claims Immigrant Farts Cause Global Warming

You're worried 'cause you're becoming a minority, aren't you?

Funny thing is that I am such a mutt that, given I have Native Caribbean/Central American ancestors am waaaay more americana than you could ever be.

Also, I happen to have a white mother. You OBVIOUSLY have not perused our site beyond a few posts.

Yet, it's nice to see you trolling your arguments.

I'm Asian-American and a minority as it is, so I don't understand what you are saying when you tell me that I'm worried about becoming a minority? It is too late as far as that is concerned and Asians are not entering this country on the scale which Hispanics are. All the Asian immigrants I know have come into this country legally and obey the laws of the US. If there are those who don't then I don't know them nor would I give them any respect. Respect must be earned and you don't earn it by breaking the laws of the country you hope to migrate to. Regardless, if what I'm reading is true you believe the government is a racist institution bent on stopping immigration. If that were true they could have done all you fear over night. All the government is doing is enforcing the laws of the United States. There isn't a government in the world who does any less and most do much more. To attempt to paint the government as racist is so obviously an attempt to play the race card by you. You simply can't justify illegal immigration, so you deflect any criticism by painting others as racially motivated. The US has absorbed millions of immigrants in the past and will continue to do so however, it must be done by the policies and laws of the US and not by any other means. That is what comes from being a nation of laws. It is why the US can have an election and not end up in a civil war over it. No one group should be above the law yet there are some 21,000,000 people in this country illegally, all ignoring our laws, all living as if the laws of the US don't apply to them. The government if anything has been far too soft on these people and I for one hope that changes. I know if tomorrow a vote was put to the American people on this subject they would vote to end illegal immigration.

US Immigration Policy has OFTEN been blatantly racist. There were specific laws aimed at Asian immigration. There were specific laws aimed at keeping out Jews even when they were faced with genocide. US law has a racist history (starting of course with slavery).

And immigration laws have always been fluid. Our railroads were built by immigrant labor, some legal some illegal, including Asian, Irish and others. The same attitudes that now are aimed mainly at Hispanics were once aimed at the very same Asian immigrants who built our railroads. Right now the Hispanic immigrants people love to hate in America are responsible for most of our agricultural harvesting and help keep produce prices low. Same goes for a large chunk of the construction industry. There are negatives to this in terms of violation of labor laws, but a simple "we must enforce the laws" attitude or "illegal is illegal" ignores economic reality.

As to illegal immigrants living in America, they do not ignore the laws in general. They pay sales tax like anyone else but take less from the government than a citizen. They are welcomed by the employers who depend on them and consumers who like prices to be low also benefit from that labor force.

You oversimplify the issue to the point of absurdity. You aren't wrong per se, because it is true that border laws are fundamental to a nation. But the flow of labor into and out of nations is a worldwide issue, and modern economies, our own included, are dependent on this flow of labor...much of which skirts the laws some or most of the time.

Immigration laws should reflect the will of the people whose country it is. It simply isn't up to me what the immigration laws of, say, Mexico are. I can only determine what the laws should be for the United States and while in the past those laws may have been tinged with racist attitudes you can't argue that the US hasn't had a very fair and open policy to immigration. I challenge you right this second to examine the immigration laws of other countries. Look at Mexico! As an American I can't even wave my flag in that country, or own property on the beach, or take part in a protest. To do so could mean prison time and most certainly deportation. Regardless, every single country in the world has immigration laws. They are there to protect their citizens. The cost of too much immigration has far too much of an impact financially on the legal citizens of the US. Illegals don't pay taxes, they don't pay impact fees, they are only taking advantage of what the citizens of this country have spent over 200 years building and building it for their own citizens, not that of Mexico or Venezuela, or wherever.

If a person is in this country in violation of this countries laws then yes, they are ignoring and breaking our laws. You can't argue any other way. It isn't like you can take that law, but not this one because you disagree. You live like everyone else under the same laws and those who break them are criminals, period. There are legal roads into the US and for those people who follow that road I have the utmost respect, but for those people who come here illegally I have absolutely no respect. I even fired my lawn company who had hired illegal workers, so I'm one who practices what he preaches. I also work for a company which does social security checks as part of background checks and I personal have seen thousands of SS# stolen by illegals in this country. Again the impact on the American economy for such people has to be paid by US citizens. It just isn't right and it just isn't fair! Not many American will give any respect to people who are coming here and breaking our laws. We ask nothing that any other country in the world asks. We are a sovereign nation with boarder that must be respected just as every other nation out there in the world today. For those who don't respect this then they are not welcome here.

so they can be taken up to the supreme court and stricken off the books.

oy.

you sound like a 14 year-old intern with talking points for the same nativists and white supremacists that fund that friggtard Michelle Malkin.

Calling someone a "white supremacists" hardly makes you sound anything more than a 14 year old girl. Seriously, who talks like that anymore? It is so outdated and quite frankly shows you for the person you are, someone who is ignorant and naive. If anyone is the racist here it is you for throwing around such terms as a means of defense, or I suppose in your case, deflection from the facts. You can’t argue by insulting people. You will end up looking foolish and will lose every debate.

She is the racist. You can read it in her tags. She wants to create separation and distrust amoung people which is why she trys to apply the racist label to anyone who disagrees with her. She is as much of the problem as these illegal workers are and both should be fought.

because Europeans are the only people that round up humans and gas them in internement camps based on their race or ethnicity ...

Vietnam?
Japan?
Thailand?
China?

etc ...

Such BS. Come on and tell me a country that hasn't warred on their neighbors. Look at the Spanish in South America. How many millions of people did their genocide wipe out? You are nothing more than a product of the culture they supplanted in South America. How about Japan in China, or Korea? Ever heard of the "rape of Nanking?" You don't even have to look at ancient history, but at modern history, look at the Africans in the Congo, look at Darfur, look at the Russians in Georgia. Look at all the petty dictators in South America? You have no moral authority over anyone and no right to put racists labels on anyone and you know it. All you do is try to place this label of racists on white people because of your own hate towards them. It is why your tags say "white supremacy." It is your own racism that you express with these blog stories. Lame, lame, oh so very lame!!!

Why do you say it is outdated? White Supremicist groups have been on the rise in the past decade and hate crimes have also been on the rise.

I believe the picture was said to be of members of Stormfront. If that is true (and I am only going on what someone posted on one of these threads) then they are a group whose slogan on their website is "White Power." That is a white supremicist group. So please do not accuse people of things without knowing the facts.

Come on now, you know and I know that her blog entry was meant to tie the idea of racism to anyone who protests illegal immigration. Groups like the KKK hardly exist anymore and their membership is so low that they hardly register as a threat to the FBI. Like that one guys said in another posting here, you only use this racism label to deflect away from what is important and that is the reasons why illegal immigration should be stopped. This chick who writes this blog sounds like an Hispanic Supremacist to me! See, two can play at that game.

You are wrong about the KKK barely existing. White supremicist movements are on the rise in America and hate crimes of all kinds have been rising almost stedily for about 7 years now. May I suggest you actually get informed before you make such statements. Check out the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League.

OMFG! this is rich:

All the Asian immigrants I know have come into this country legally and obey the laws of the US.

You obviously are not what you say you are.

So these things never happen in Chinatown or environs:
Human smuggling?
Sweatshops?
Sexual bondage?

Yah.

Whatevs.

Oh, the thing you mention no doubt happen as they may be happening today to Asians coming into this country illegally, and are definitely happening to Hispanics since the illegals are only able to work in the US thanks to unscrupulous American employers who are seeking exploit them. They wouldn't be here if not for that fact and those employers are just as guilty and should be punished as well as those here illegally. Regardless, my family did indeed immigrate to the US legally as did everyone I know. They took the time and made the effort to comply with all the laws of the US. You make it sound is if you must enter this country illegally if you wish to immigrate here. Nothing could be further from the truth and millions come here legally every year. I respect the laws of this country and I wish to be a part of the USA. I further respect others who come to this country legally and reserve the right to disrespect those who do so illegally. There is a right way of doing things and a wrong way and anyone who breaks the laws of the US deserves the label of criminal just as it is in every single country on the planet.

Even more reason to oppose illegal immigration since too many negatives comes with it. The more the US government fights illegal immigration then the more they will discourage illegal immigrant smuggling, or Sweatshops, or sexual bondage. All of which are illegal in the US as illegal immigrants are.

That kind of reasoning sounds good, but laws that don't work don't work better just through enforcement. Think about Prohibition. So yes, we need to stop sweatshops, etc. But harsher enforcement of laws that already don't work won't solve the problem.

There is a demand for that labor. If we don't have legal ways to meet that demand (and nothing currently in place suffices) then there WILL be illegal immigration. It really is simple capitalism. Not sure why it is so difficult for some to grasp. If there is a demand there will be a supply, and the demand for agricultural labor is higher than the US can supply itself. In fact many nations have the same problem and none, that I am aware of, have succeeded in solving it. Yet it is a real problem, a modern problem and one that won't be solved by platitudes about enforcing laws.

Your logic is quite frankly illogical. It sounds like you are saying because some people break laws then we shouldn't have laws. If that is the case maybe I should come over to your house and take your car, or maybe steal your livelihood? Your argument makes no sense at all. We have immigration laws for a reason! Like I say over and over, we are subjected to over immigration at the moment and it isn't feasible economically for the US citizens to deal with it. It isn't fair that citizens of the US must pay for the impact which these millions upon millions of foreigners create when they flood into our cities. Of course you can't ignore the effect it has upon the countries which they leave either. There is a good reason why S. America is full of third world countries and that is because people are unwilling to stay and make those countries better. They would rather flee to a country like the US which has already been built up and is a success. It isn't fair not only for US citizens who worked hard to build America and then who lose jobs to these people, and who then have to pay more for the added strain on the social services, but it also isn't fair to the people in the countries which these immigrants have left.

Again, before you go harping on about a need for immigrant labor please look at the rising unemployment rate in the US today and the downturn in the US economy before you make such claims. Also, it is up to the US government as to how many workers are wanted here and not up to these foreign nationals to decide for us. The employers in the US who after this immigrant labor are not filling any labor need at all other than cheap labor. It is better for them to hire an illegal than to hire an American citizen since to hire and American citizen means they must pay minimum wages, and pay benefits, and adhere to US laws such as OSHA and workers compensation. None of that has to be paid for or dealt with by employers if they hire Jose straight off the train from Tijuana. Again, it makes this entire situation regarding the legality of these workers even more so illegal. The US government should do more to discourage this type of abuse and the answer is more enforcement of laws and more patrolling of the board and not less.

Lastly, you must ask the American people what they want and I can guarantee you that the American people don't want the type of immigration we have at the moment. Most people are opposed to it. We are not against immigration, but we are against over immigration. I as an Asian-American also am against the fact that Hispanics are flooding into the US. It makes it more difficult for other people to have the opportunity to come here legally. The US government is forced to say no to people applying for visas in Asia, or even in Africa and Europe because of the strain and problems caused by Hispanics flooding into the US almost uncontrolled. Again, nothing is fair about the illegal immigration going on today for anyone other than the Hispanics who are taking advantage of the liberal US laws. It is completely wrong!

Your knowledge of labor dynamics is rudimentary. There IS a labor shortage in the agricultural sector and urban unemployment will never fill that need. Migrant workers, mostly illegal, have always formed the backbone of America's agricultural work force except for during the 1920's when a large group of American farmers were ruined by the Dust Bowl and became migrants.

As to the laws, you haven't read what I wrote or you lack a basic understanding. When laws don't work, increased enforcement doesn't make the situation better, it merely makes it more brutal and expensive. That is time for reform of the laws, not stricter and stricter (which also means more and more expensive) enforcement. So stop claiming I am saying something I very cleraly did not say.

As to the US being built up successfully, let me point out that was thanks to immigrants. And there has ALWAYS been a stream of both legal and illegal immigrants. The more open our immigration policy has been, the more legal and fewer illegal immigrants. The more restrictive it has been the more illegal immigrants. But regardless immigration was mainly driven by the labor needs of the American economy. Seriously, don't you learn anything about economics?

So please stop mouthing the same three talking points over and over and start answering the question of just how much more money are you willing to spend on produce and when you rent or buy an apartment and how much are you willing to have your taxes increased to accomplish the strict enforcement of immigration laws you are demanding. Until you face up to those facts your arguement is weak and too distant from reality to matter. Address the economic realities of your proposal.

you might burst your aorta.

25 years of "the war on drugs" have not diminished AT ALL demand for the foul, hard drugs that litter the upper middle landscape of places like Wall Street (where there's literally a drug dealing corner) or Beverly Hills.

do you know that Holland has one of the lowest incidences of drug addiction in the EU? they also have one of the most liberal immigration policies in the EU and it's only become strained by the backwards backlash of countries like France and Germany.

the US doesn't have an immigration problem. never has.

the "drug" problem could be killed in an instant if it were taxed and regulated.

laws are not perfect and they are never considered perfect even by law enforcement agencies because they know it only takes one lawsuit to clarify a law or make it unconstitutional.

rule law?

what a straw man.

shut up if you don't have a better comeback.

Oh believe me, I try not to think too hard.

Just because some folks brake laws doesn't mean we get rid of those laws. People murder people all the time, so should we just throw up our hands and say, "well damn, people are still committing murder, so I guess we just give up and them kill each other?" Is that the type of world you want to live in.

I tell you what I dislike about the recent problem with immigration and it has nothing to do what most people complain about. You'll like this since I'm sure you'll think me racist after this, but it is honest. I really dislike Hispanic culture. I went to a Puerto Rican festival thinking I would come away with an appreciation of the culture, but I just came away thinking it sucked. I hated the music, I hated the food, I thought the people were all a bunch of low class peasants. That is really what Hispanic culture is all about, it is a peasant culture. The people coming to the US are peasant, many are uneducated, uncultured people who are dragging down the US culture. The only thing good to come out of South America is the Tango. Everything else they can keep, oh, but I do like tacos with sour cream and hot sauce, that is pretty good, but everything else Hispanic is just lame, lame, lame....

Yup, you're a racist.

How does preferring one culture to another equate to racism? Lets face it, you can't compare a culture rich as European culture to one as poor as Latino culture. European culture is sophisticated, it is high culture whereas Latino culture is simply put, low class. It is characterized by bad taste and a tackiness which few other cultures possess. I dislike Latino cuisine, so how does that make me a racist? I dislike their music, their cultural clothings, and their art, but how does that imply racism? I even dislike the Spanish language. While English is the international language of business, diplomacy, science, engineering, technology, aviation and seafaring, the only thing the Spanish language is, is the international language of ditch diggers and law mowers. I don't hate such people, I don't hate Latinos and in fact I judge every person I meet on a person by person basis. I don't dislike someone simply because they are of a certain ethnic group, but I don't have to like their culture or its effect on the culture of the US. I really don't want to see the US becoming more of a low class & tacky Hispanic culture. If that makes me a racist in your eyes then so be it, but I won't change that opinion simply because you want to label me such. I like what I like and dislike what I don't and even after quite a bit of exposer to Latino culture I still don't like it. I find very little good about it. It is a peasant culture.

Wow...elitist, aren't you? Wonder how our Midwest farmers would take to that comment.

So you truly believe your grandparents or great-grandparents were of enough pedigree to get into the US "legally"?

oh, please.

Yes indeed my family filed visa forms to come here and work and eventually became citizens all done legally, I am very proud to say. If you come into this country illegally then you don't deserve one ounce of respect especially from someone like me who worked hard to obey the laws of this land. If you can't comply with the laws of this country then you simply don't deserve to be protected by those same laws and you won't earn anyone's respect. No American in his right mind would give any respect to these illegals who break our laws. There is just no arguing against the fact that if you wish to be a citizen of the US then you must abide by the laws of the US. If you are a foreigner then you shouldn't even have the right to comment on our laws. They are ours to make just as the laws made in Mexico are their laws to make. If you break our laws then you deserve to consequences of your actions. The same goes for any country you are in be it America or not.

I have no records of how my father's family got in. Legal or illegal, we have no idea. Lost in the mists of pre-Civil War records. My mother's side seemed to mainly come through legally, though perhaps not strictly so. For example, the entry record indicates a visit to a family member already into the US, not necessarily immigration. But at some point a passport was issued, so whatever legality seemed to be worked out in the end during that generation. But there was also a member of the family, whose descendents include well known doctors and lawyers, who probably entered illegally through South America. I can't find any record of his legal entry and he came to the US via many jobs through South America.

And, of course, it is well known that Chinatowns throughout American history included many illegal immigrants. In fact your story suggests your family are recent immigrants from Asia and that none of them worked in Chinese Restaurants because earlier immigration by Asians included substantial illegal entry, and currently the majority of Chinese restaurants in America use illegal labor brought in by a major illegal immigration scheme.

Please don't think you are that much different from the Hispanics who are coming in, legally or illegally.

Finally, commenting on the laws of other nations is pretty typical. Our criticisms of nations like Serbia, China and Iran focus a great deal on their laws. However, I would say it is quite natural to expect that breaking laws brings consequences. You say that as if it is a revelation, but of course I have acknowleged that already.

I'm not against Hispanics coming into the country nor am I against immigration at all. What I am against is people breaking the immigration laws of the US, I am against the over immigration of this country and the cost that is associated with it which the US citizen is forced to pay. I will say that I believe no country can take in the numbers of citizens which the US takes in and as a result the US government is forced to curtail its acceptance of citizens from other countries because of the forced entry of central and South Americans into the US. In that regard I find it incredibly unfair and selfish of these central and South Americans. They take up the places which could have gone to other nationalities who may have wished to immigrate to the US legally, but can't because of the numbers of people here illegally. So many people want to come to America and unfortunately there isn't enough of a capability to handle them all in the US. I respect this country so much that I am unwilling to break the laws here. I respect those who enter as I did, legally and I don't respect those who break the laws. Perhaps in your great-great-great grandparent’s time there were not laws established, but today there most certainly are not only here in the US, but in every nation on the planet. These laws are a necessary fact of life and a means to control the impact made upon the host country by these migrants.

You refuse to address the real issue. The current laws are NOT WORKING. They are creating labor shortages in particular industries (that is a fact) which in turn drives up our prices. They also demand a huge amount of tax money to try to get full enforcement. In the meantime enforcement doesn't work.

So you are defending a broken system. And your only arguement is that we need immigration laws. WELL NO ONE SAID OTHERWISE. So address the issue of the fact that our current laws are not working, that we need reform to relieve specific labor crises and to prevent inflation in those specific markets, AND to reduce the cost of enforcement unless we want higher taxes.

The Laws are working but they need to be tougher, tougher on employers who hire illegals and on the illegal here and that is the real issue here. We have laws in place which say how a person may enter this country and on what restrictions are applied to them as far as working in this country. Many people such as myself obey those laws and are proud that they did. These laws also stop people at our borders everyday who hope to circumvent our laws. Regardless of the fact that some foreigners do continue to break these laws doesn't mean you ignore these laws. What foolishness on your part to suggest that? If we were to go by what you say then what is the point of any law that has ever been broken? You obviously don't understand the concept of law enforcement. It works for the most part and without it there would be more than 21,000,000 illegal aliens in this country. The flow of people must be stemmed since the US simply can't afford to deal with these foreign nationals. We don't need immigration laws we just need more enforcement of the laws we have and more people to secure our borders. People like you seem to suggest that we should just open up our doors to these people, let them come on in and compete for our jobs, allow them to take advantage of our welfare system, our schools, and all while we the US citizens pay the for this. I read recently that each illegal immigrant cost the American tax payer the equivalent of a brand new Mustang. Have you seen what the millions of illegal immigrants has done to LA? The road are clogged, the services are at the breaking point, and some neighborhoods are at war with each other. Your idea of driving down prices is really driving down wages. It is increasing our unemployment rate and costs. It is wrong on so many levels that there is nothing you can say which could ever rationalize people breaking our laws and disrespecting this country. It is pure folly to suggest that these illegals are somehow necessary to the US. The US did quite fine without them before this recent invasion.

See, you have just one thing to say even if it is wrong. No one is saying don't have immigration laws. So stop using it as a straw man arguement.

You want to talk to me about Los Angeles? Yeah. I grew up there. Still have family there and visit at least once a year. Wonderful city, wondefully diverse and vibrant. The clogged roads, of course, have nothing to do with illegal immigrants most of whom don't own cars. Services are no more at the breaking point there than anywhere in the nation, and most services are underfunded by Republican administrations in the first place. Has nothing to do with immigrants.

As to what each illegal immigrant costs the taxpayers, you need to cite your source and what is included. They pay no income taxes but they do pay sales taxes and I bit your little dubious factoid ignores that. They do not draw much from taxpayers at all UNLESS they have kids in our schools. That is a real cost, though one would argue educating the world will have long term benefits (hell, many empires used it as policy to make sure neighboring peoples were sympathetic to them). But it is a real cost. About the only one that isn't completely balanced by the contributions they make in sales tax and services. So if you quote such figures, please cite the source and make sure they include all aspects of the issue. Otherwise you are merely being dishonest. I am sure you don't want to be dishonest, do you? Hmmm?

Now, you continue to advocate higher taxes to enforce broken laws and you refuse to recognize the basic fact that most immigrants are filling jobs that citizens don't take. Now there are exceptions: there is probably more of a direct competition between the two in the construction industry. But migrant labor in agriculture and the lowest rung of the restaurant industry have almost always been filled by immigrant labor and the current laws HAVE created labor shortages in those industries. You CAN'T ignore those basic facts. So admit you are in favor of higher prices and higher taxes and we can go from there. Or admit that there are unwanted consequences of the existing laws and they require reform. Which is it. You can't wish that choice away because it is the exact choice this nation currently faces and every single farmer in the country is aware of it.

I too am from LA and I grew up in areas which would best be described as an immigrant areas and I can tell you for a fact that social services were taxed by a growing immigrant community. I heard it first hand from the social workers themselves say this over and over. I watched the quality of education slip and watched the standard of living drop, which is why I left LA. Maybe in the safe white suburbs your practiced your Viking ax wielding skills in there wasn't a drop in standards. You can't expect millions of people to migrate to LA and it not have a negative impact. I would wager that a large majority of the estimated 21,000,000 illegal are in fact in California with the majority living in LA. All you have to do is walk on the streets to see that. LA is looking more and more like a Mexican city than the glamorous city it once was.

As for costs of illegal immigration how about these figures from the Center for Immigration Study,

~ Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

~ Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion). This also has the effect of raising insurance costs to US citizens.

None of these figures address the negative effect upon wages in the US. It isn't only costs that get driven down as you purport, but also the wages, which has an effect across the board. Then add to that the negative effect it has on communities which are flooded with these illegal aliens. LA is having terrible problems between the black and Hispanic communities. You want to talk about racism then talk to an older Hispanic male on what they think about black people.

You can't justify these people breaking our laws because you believe that there is a need. If there is a need then let the US government fill that need legally, let them monitor who is coming into the country, let them secure our borders, let them enforce US labor laws, protect our wages by enforcing the minimum wage, and let them protect these foreign workers we bring in legally from unscrupulous American employers looking to exploit the cheap labor. All of which of course after we make certain no American citizen can do the same job. There is no reason for our unemployment to be rising when we, as you claim, have enough jobs to go around to Americans and foreign nationals.

I actually lived with immigrants at times, so don't give me crap about that. I know their side of it and my grandmother was an immigrant. And what you heard is irrelavent because it is clear that you heard some inacurate things. The quality of education in California slipped because of Prop 13. That was clear at the time and it is clear now. That CANNOT be blamed on immigrants. It is due to right wing policy plain and simple. Radically cut the property taxes and you radically cut the money to the schools, museums and libraries. I saw it happen. I was part of the first wave of cuts and a second wave of cuts came after me. It had NOTHING to do with immigration. It had everything to do with right wing greed.

I am interested in your figures. But please link to the source. I am a scientist, born and bred. So if you don't give a full citation of your data, with easy links these days, then no one knows the validity. I will judge your figures if you actually give me the links. But I will say that your first set of figures may be apropos (pending review) but your second has nothing to do with immigration since the vast majority of the costs you cite are from citizens that the Republicans refuse to insure. I know people who fit right in what you describe and all but one of them were citizens born and bred.

Now, in your final paragarph you imply you support reform of US immigration policy, which is what I have been advocating all along and you have been arguing against. So thank you for compromising. I assume the higher taxes and inflation your previous stand implied deterred you from such a harsh policy?